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Steve Mackie
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:15 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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The odds that replacing the 24x cam sensor will repair a P1374 are way too
high, so I will pass on that wager.
If you got through the diagnostic chart and found that you had to replace
the ICM, but it didn't fix the problem, you must have missed something.
You'll have to go back through and check all 3x reference signal circuit
wires and connetions as outlined in the diagnostic chart. I also notice that
the coil packs should be inspected for cracks/arcing/carbon tracking/damge.
Steve
"GlassVial" <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:skl5m1te62d8hlq85ebbb6uo1r26o0bjbp@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Replaced the ICM, runs a little better, still skips, still throws the
1374 code. Anybody care to take a wager on the cam sensor?
-GV
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oldkid
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:00 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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the ICM doesn't go bad on these cars!?!?that engine is in alota
cars!!statement must be a personal opinion.ask your boneyard how many
they sell!say you spend 50 on it.still cheaper then takin it to a
pro.another thing.it wont show up as a check engine light fault.but if
you have another car with the same motor.swap the ICM!(coilpack).if
from different year check with parts store if same before effort or
look at connectors.and the hard start(intermittant) on my last trouble
car was the crank sensor.you changed that.has the car always been a
long start!?how many miles on it!?does the timing ever jump on these
engines!?i think that's what's rare!3800's are more common! |
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:14 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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| Quote: | the ICM doesn't go bad on these cars!?!?that engine is in alota
cars!!statement must be a personal opinion.ask your boneyard how many
they sell!say you spend 50 on it.still cheaper then takin it to a
pro.another thing.it wont show up as a check engine light fault.but if
you have another car with the same motor.swap the ICM!(coilpack).if
from different year check with parts store if same before effort or
look at connectors.and the hard start(intermittant) on my last trouble
car was the crank sensor.you changed that.has the car always been a
long start!?how many miles on it!?does the timing ever jump on these
engines!?i think that's what's rare!3800's are more common!
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We replaced the ICM, the car still is not running properly and the
1374 code is still present. The coilpacks all check out fine.
Already replaced the crank sensor, car still starts hard. 80k miles
on car. Don't know about the timing jump problem? We're looking at
the possibility of a wiring problem right now, but this thing is
getting closer and closer to heading to a shop for full diagnosis,
it's definitely something that needs to be pinned down and is falling
outside our realm of expertise.
-GV
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:14 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 17:01:14 GMT, "Steve Mackie"
<stevemackie@ns.sympatico.ca> wrote:
| Quote: | http://users.eastlink.ca/~smackie/p1374.pdf
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You don't happen to have the "Wiring Repair in Electrical Diagnosis",
or equivalent, do you?
-GV |
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oldkid
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:14 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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maybe you should consider the conditions/actions prior to/during the
conk out.for clues.and fuel pressure.anybody put additives in tank
prior to conkout.can mess with injectors.how about injector
voltages/pulses.did you say it ran better with replacement ICM?where
did it come from?was the swap not available?(sure thing proof).you
coulda got another bad one?change the computer?popping cyl means
misstimed fire or lean mixture.like i said before.all kinky Gm problems
for me have either been ICM ECM or injectors for the symptems you
describe.but he first question i always ask anyone is if car has
recently been worked on or any special things been done out of the
ordinary.and then ask conditions during problem developement or event.i
remember a vw golf my daughter had that had a rough intermiitant idle
and stall problem and i finally after 6 months got a sub computer to
try and when i pulled the large connector i saw one of the wires had
come untrapped from the connector and so was making intermittant
contact .WHO KNEW!!and it was smothered in grease but i still caught
it!of course this was while removing test computer that failed to fix
problem! |
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Steve Mackie
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:25 pm Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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Not sure what you mean.
"GlassVial" <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o5t5m15ut0jbjgiid5arj1flu6ni7ibs9m@4ax.com...
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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I got a hold of the GM troubleshooting rundown, which looks just like
the alldata steps, except in some steps it says something like "refer
to the Wiring Repair in Electrical Diagnosis book" so I was wondering
if you had such a thing. At this point it's looking like there's a
very complex electrical problem we need to attept to trace down, or
the computer is bad :(
| Quote: | Not sure what you mean.
You don't happen to have the "Wiring Repair in Electrical Diagnosis",
or equivalent, do you?
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-GV |
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:29 pm Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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| Quote: | maybe you should consider the conditions/actions prior to/during the
conk out.for clues.and fuel pressure.anybody put additives in tank
prior to conkout.can mess with injectors.
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I highly doubt a fuel additive would be throwing a P1374 code.
| Quote: | how about injector voltages/pulses.did you say it ran better with
replacement ICM?where did it come from?
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Slightly better with the new ICM however the symptoms have not
changed, the problem still exists. Came from autozone, brand new.
| Quote: | was the swap not available?(sure thing proof).you
coulda got another bad one?
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Highly unlikely, this wasn't a pickup from a junkyard this was a brand
new part.
| Quote: | change the computer?
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That's the last thing we want to do. A *new* computer is $350 and
would need to be reprogrammed.
| Quote: | popping cyl means misstimed fire or lean mixture.like i said before.
all kinky Gm problems for me have either been ICM ECM or injectors
for the symptems you describe.
|
For the symptoms, AND a P1374 code, though??
| Quote: | but he first question i always ask anyone is if car has
recently been worked on or any special things been done out of the
ordinary.
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Nope. Car had just passed inspection and had an oil change, actually.
After it started this problem and the check engine codes came on the
first time, we gave it a good tuneup (as per my original post) plus we
replaced the MAP sensor due to a P0108 code (IIRC). As I posted
already, this is either a wiring/terminal problem we are going to
attempt to trace down, or it's the computer. It doesn't appear to be
the ICM (as this did not solve the problem and the P1374 code is still
there) and it's definitely not something as over-simplified as just
someone adding fuel injector cleaner.
-GV |
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Steve Mackie
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:50 pm Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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Gotcha. If you have the factory manual set there is a book dedicated to
Electrical Diagnosis. The wiring repair you speak of is just a section
detailing repair procedures. Nothing specific to any circuit. I can turn the
ALLData version of the same thing in a PDF, but it's not going to help you
until you find the problem.
....or if there is a specific piece of information you need, I could send
that over...
Steve
"GlassVial" <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:13t6m11k3858oal9i21epj02cddmnltsn8@4ax.com...
| Quote: | I got a hold of the GM troubleshooting rundown, which looks just like
the alldata steps, except in some steps it says something like "refer
to the Wiring Repair in Electrical Diagnosis book" so I was wondering
if you had such a thing. At this point it's looking like there's a
very complex electrical problem we need to attept to trace down, or
the computer is bad :(
Not sure what you mean.
You don't happen to have the "Wiring Repair in Electrical Diagnosis",
or equivalent, do you?
-GV
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:35 pm Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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| Quote: | Gotcha. If you have the factory manual set there is a book dedicated to
Electrical Diagnosis. The wiring repair you speak of is just a section
detailing repair procedures. Nothing specific to any circuit. I can turn the
ALLData version of the same thing in a PDF, but it's not going to help you
until you find the problem.
...or if there is a specific piece of information you need, I could send
that over...
|
Sorry I can't be more specific, I'm just reading what the printout we
got from the GM dealer says. Anything you can post would be helpful
and much appreciated!! :)
-GV |
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:17 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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| Quote: | Gotcha. If you have the factory manual set there is a book dedicated to
Electrical Diagnosis. The wiring repair you speak of is just a section
detailing repair procedures. Nothing specific to any circuit. I can turn the
ALLData version of the same thing in a PDF, but it's not going to help you
until you find the problem.
...or if there is a specific piece of information you need, I could send
that over...
|
You know, I just can't f'n win. Went to the library today, they have
all the mitchell manuals EXCEPT the one for 1996 in one section, and
in another section they have mitchell manuals that have these
wonderful wiring diagrams that would probably be great EXCEPT the
thing is in this big binder and none of the librarians know how to
undo it to make copies, because you can't take it out of the library!!
-GV |
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Woody
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:15 pm Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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Use a digital camera and photograph the pages. Also a trip to
www.helminc.com might be in order. If you plan on keeping the vehicle and
fixing it yourself a good set of factory manuals is well worth the
investment....
"GlassVial" <glassvial@NOSPAM.hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:t3m7m191bqg0k09j9jufjq1k19lh4gqq6a@4ax.com...
| Quote: | Gotcha. If you have the factory manual set there is a book dedicated to
Electrical Diagnosis. The wiring repair you speak of is just a section
detailing repair procedures. Nothing specific to any circuit. I can turn
the
ALLData version of the same thing in a PDF, but it's not going to help you
until you find the problem.
...or if there is a specific piece of information you need, I could send
that over...
You know, I just can't f'n win. Went to the library today, they have
all the mitchell manuals EXCEPT the one for 1996 in one section, and
in another section they have mitchell manuals that have these
wonderful wiring diagrams that would probably be great EXCEPT the
thing is in this big binder and none of the librarians know how to
undo it to make copies, because you can't take it out of the library!!
-GV
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oldkid
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 7:38 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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how much does the boneyard want for a puter.and why did the wiring
problem suddenly develope?connectors?corrosion?chafing?insulation
failure?constant flex internal breakage?unbelievable fluke?(my VW)if
you were able to cure the other codes it does seem like a funny
deal.wonder why the new ICM only improved the running.can new parts be
faulty.it does happen occaisionally.maybe i'll go study that 1374
repair tree. |
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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| Quote: | how much does the boneyard want for a puter.and why did the wiring
problem suddenly develope?connectors?corrosion?chafing?insulation
failure?constant flex internal breakage?unbelievable fluke?(my VW)if
you were able to cure the other codes it does seem like a funny
deal.wonder why the new ICM only improved the running.can new parts be
faulty.it does happen occaisionally.maybe i'll go study that 1374
repair tree.
|
The answer to all your questions is: I don't know. The car was
running fine when my friend first got it, all of a sudden the check
engine light came on and it started running like crap. We have not
yet ruled out a wiring problem or a computer, yet. We got past step 4
in the alldata chart posted by Steve Mackie, now we are on step 5
(that means we did not skip to step 8 if you are following along).
Simply ran out of time tonight, will be working on step 5 in the
coming days.
-GV |
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GlassVial
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Nov 01, 2005 9:15 am Post subject:
Re: OBD-II Code P1374 on a 1996 Olds Cutlass Ciera 3100 (rou |
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| Quote: | well if i'm understanding this 1374 thing(pdf)so far your car is
currently running on the 24x reference signal(crank sensor) and cam
signal.1374 means the ICM is ignored(3X) as an input to PCM.so then why
did the car run better with a new one?hmmmm.and even without ICM input
car should start and run on 24x and cam signal.you replaced the crank
sensor.you joked about the cam sensor.hmmmm.
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After lots and lots of frustration, I believe we've found the problem,
it appears to be a bad wire. The circuit 430 wire, purple/white, has
no continuity. That's the 3x reference high signal for those
following along at home. And, obviously I got my hands on the wiring
diagrams (finally) or else we never would have figured this out.
Now of course, the question is, what type of wire is used, what gauge
of wire is used, and how in the hell are we gonna run the wire from
under the hood to the inside of the car? And after all that, is this
finally going to fix the problem...I certainly hope so.
-GV |
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