| Author |
Message |
TheSnoMan
Guest
|
 Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 3:58 pm Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
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|
They are a big part of the problem as wages are out of sync with skill
and job. Some management people are over paided to but they are a
smaller percentage of payroll and eaiser to "fire". This has GM labor
worried too because they see a trend and it will not be long before it
hit GM auto division too. The economy (car costs and fuel prices) has
hit a wall and can no longer support wage and benfit package and still
sell products at a profit. The days of glut are over.
John Horner wrote:
| Quote: | I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but I did say that they
have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and underperforming
management is also at fault.
$65/hour pay packages for factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported
is accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much.
John
philthy wrote:
did you recently read where the delphi's mister miller is forgoing his
1.5 million a
year base pay for the next year! and u blame the uaw i think not add
the sum to the 32
top exucs they fired and that adds up the the debt the company owes!
John Horner wrote:
philthy wrote:
the real nasty thing that bothers me about all this is the fact that
companies
from other countries come here and build factories and make money
and employ our
citizens at a fair and living wage while our companies founded here
either move
out of our country or close
Almost none of the transplant factories are unionionized, and although
they pay good wages for their regions they pay far less than do GM, Ford
or Chrysler.
One of the bad side effects of the high UAW wages is that US companies
are doubly motivated to build factories outside of the US/Canada where
they are away from the UAW. Ditto for the parts suppliers.
The UAW has over time become part of the problem.
John
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Sarge
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:10 pm Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
John Horner wrote: "I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but I
did say that they have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and
underperforming management is also at fault. $65/hour pay packages for
factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported is
accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much."
What would call competitive hourly wage package? What to you think people
working in oil refineries and most major chemical plants make per hour?
Today benefits probably cost more then hourly wages. According to the
articles I read, Delphi employees make 27 dollars per hour plus benefits
that brings total wage package to 60 dollars and hour. I not sure what in
their benefit package but that equals more then the hourly wages. I would
bet the majority is health insurance cost.
Here is what Delphi agreed to in the last contract: Take a look at the last
one. Delphi has increased top managements wages during this contract and
even sweeten the severance package of its top executives while wanting the
hourly workers to take a 50% pay cut and bring in new hires at 14 dollars
and hour. Top management failed to abide by the contract in more then one
way.
Delphi Commitments
As part of those discussions, Delphi must commit in definitive, enforceable
terms to:
make sufficient capital investments in UAW-represented plants to allow them
to be competitive, improve product quality, improve operational
effectiveness, and be viable for the long term;
allocate new product, both GM and non-GM, to UAW-represented facilities;
focus on maintaining present GM business, winning back GM business lost
since the spin-off and winning new GM business;
develop enhanced retirement and separation incentives for employees;
an appropriate level of supervisory staffing, as determined by mutual
agreement, along with procedures to jointly review the supervisory staffing
level on an ongoing basis;
negotiate and implement operating practices that are competitive in the U.S.
car and truck component industry;
the principle of "equivalence of sacrifice" when establishing compensation
and benefit levels for management to ensure that sacrifices made by
UAW-represented employees are reflected in the pay and benefit practices of
all non-represented employees. Top management must take the lead by
accepting compensation and benefit reductions at least as large in
percentage terms as those sustained by new hires.
Sarge |
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TheSnoMan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:23 pm Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
Most of those jobs are unskilled and anyone could learn them in very
short order. I simply is not worth 60/hr and wages and benifits plain
and simple because I am (and others) are not going to pay for it in the
product they produce. It is simple math here. A teacher with a 10 years
experiance makes far less than this. Yhe pay has gotten out of sync with
skill level. Year ago I used to know a guy that worked at the Moraine
engine bearing plant. He used to tell me that when he first started
working there that is a bearing even looked questionable, it was
rejected. By the time he retired some time around he siad they were
passing bearings that should have been scrapped because of high labors
cost demeand high volume good or bad. TIme to rescale pay and time spent
on product and get quality over quanity.
Sarge wrote:
| Quote: | John Horner wrote: "I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but I
did say that they have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and
underperforming management is also at fault. $65/hour pay packages for
factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported is
accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much."
What would call competitive hourly wage package? What to you think people
working in oil refineries and most major chemical plants make per hour?
Today benefits probably cost more then hourly wages. According to the
articles I read, Delphi employees make 27 dollars per hour plus benefits
that brings total wage package to 60 dollars and hour. I not sure what in
their benefit package but that equals more then the hourly wages. I would
bet the majority is health insurance cost.
Here is what Delphi agreed to in the last contract: Take a look at the last
one. Delphi has increased top managements wages during this contract and
even sweeten the severance package of its top executives while wanting the
hourly workers to take a 50% pay cut and bring in new hires at 14 dollars
and hour. Top management failed to abide by the contract in more then one
way.
Delphi Commitments
As part of those discussions, Delphi must commit in definitive, enforceable
terms to:
make sufficient capital investments in UAW-represented plants to allow them
to be competitive, improve product quality, improve operational
effectiveness, and be viable for the long term;
allocate new product, both GM and non-GM, to UAW-represented facilities;
focus on maintaining present GM business, winning back GM business lost
since the spin-off and winning new GM business;
develop enhanced retirement and separation incentives for employees;
an appropriate level of supervisory staffing, as determined by mutual
agreement, along with procedures to jointly review the supervisory staffing
level on an ongoing basis;
negotiate and implement operating practices that are competitive in the U.S.
car and truck component industry;
the principle of "equivalence of sacrifice" when establishing compensation
and benefit levels for management to ensure that sacrifices made by
UAW-represented employees are reflected in the pay and benefit practices of
all non-represented employees. Top management must take the lead by
accepting compensation and benefit reductions at least as large in
percentage terms as those sustained by new hires.
Sarge
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Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
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|
As I said before you are entitled to you personal opinion but a search of
the IRS site will prove you opion to be wrong. GM pays millions in federal
corporate income taxes annually, and has for as far back as you chose to
search. Ford several years ago did not pay federal taxes during one year,
2000 if I recall, because they had a loss. Union wages and benefits, in the
auto industry, far exceed those of any non union plant period. ;)
mike hunt
"philthy" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
news:43570746.A35C3E9@cac.net...
| Quote: | u need to read at some uaw websites and get the real facts
gm has not paid taxes in a few years since it always operates in the red
but
the upper management gets millions in base pay and stock options while
they
continue to send work of of our countryn and they wages you site do not
exist
anymore so the 18 a hour honda pays is good
Mike Hunter wrote:
That may be your opinon but the fact is NO foreign manufacter that
assembes
vehicles or makes parts for their vehicles in the SU that offers wages or
benifite anywere near equal to those offered by domestic manufactes that
build vehicle and parts for domestic manufactures, peroid. Domestic
manufactures also pay federal corpertate income taxes on the profit they
earn in the US, Japanese coperations do not ;)
mike hunt
"philthy" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
news:4352D27F.387DF7BB@cac.net...
hmm i know someone who makes parts in this country namely in howell
michigan for
toyleta and makes good money with full benies
and that is a outsourced part from toyleta , then i know a few few
poeple
that
work for honda and make dam good money
Mike Hunter wrote:
What you seem to believe to be true, is not. Foreign manufacture do
not
'come to the US and build factories and vehicles.' What they do is
merely
assemble vehicles of imported parts, in plants build with taxpayers
money
via bond issues, with under paid workers, with few benefits, that were
trained buy the states. To add insult to injury they take the profits
they
earn in this country, out of the county federal corporate tax free.
American manufactures, to stay competitive, are being forced to seek
lower
priced parts and reduced payroll and benefit costs that are closer to
those
costs in the subsidized foreign operated plants.
mike hunt
"philthy" <dbrider@cac.net> wrote in message
news:43513F30.E4E6338@cac.net...
the real nasty thing that bothers me about all this is the fact that
companies
from other countries come here and build factories and make money
and
employ our
citizens at a fair and living wage while our companies founded here
either
move
out of our country or close
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Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Oct 20, 2005 10:29 pm Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
Your argument does not make sense. Non union assembly plants, like those
operated by Toyota, offer their employees a much lower wage and benefits
package than union plants but toyotas vehicles have a higher MSRP than the
similar sized and equipped vehicles sold by the domestics. You should do a
bit more research before you decide to post your personal opinions on a
subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge.
mike hunt
"TheSnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:CDO5f.19032$q1.5235@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Most of those jobs are unskilled and anyone could learn them in very short
order. I simply is not worth 60/hr and wages and benifits plain and simple
because I am (and others) are not going to pay for it in the product they
produce. It is simple math here. A teacher with a 10 years experiance
makes far less than this. Yhe pay has gotten out of sync with skill level.
Year ago I used to know a guy that worked at the Moraine engine bearing
plant. He used to tell me that when he first started working there that is
a bearing even looked questionable, it was rejected. By the time he
retired some time around he siad they were passing bearings that should
have been scrapped because of high labors cost demeand high volume good or
bad. TIme to rescale pay and time spent on product and get quality over
quanity.
|
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| Back to top |
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David Starr
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 2:47 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Oct 2005 05:13:43 GMT, John Horner <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote:
| Quote: | I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but I did say that they
have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and underperforming
management is also at fault.
$65/hour pay packages for factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported
is accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much.
|
When i retired in Feb. of this year, my pay rate was $30.10 per hour. I'm not
sure about the benefits, but I doubt they are as high as $34.90 per hour. That's
almost $1400.00 per week.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Retired Shop Rat: 14,647 days in a GM plant.
Now I can do what I enjoy: Large Format Photography
Web Site: www.destarr.com
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |
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Hairy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:19 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
"TheSnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:CDO5f.19032$q1.5235@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | Most of those jobs are unskilled and anyone could learn them in very
short order. I simply is not worth 60/hr and wages and benifits plain
and simple because I am (and others) are not going to pay for it in the
product they produce. It is simple math here. A teacher with a 10 years
experiance makes far less than this. Yhe pay has gotten out of sync with
skill level. Year ago I used to know a guy that worked at the Moraine
engine bearing plant. He used to tell me that when he first started
working there that is a bearing even looked questionable, it was
rejected. By the time he retired some time around he siad they were
passing bearings that should have been scrapped because of high labors
cost demeand high volume good or bad. TIme to rescale pay and time spent
on product and get quality over quanity.
|
Easy for you to say. I suspect you'd be singing a different tune if they
wanted to cut your pay in half.
Dave |
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philthy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:31 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
you are right the days of glut are over but the exucutives will continue their
glut costing us our couintry and it's jobs
TheSnoMan wrote:
| Quote: | They are a big part of the problem as wages are out of sync with skill
and job. Some management people are over paided to but they are a
smaller percentage of payroll and eaiser to "fire". This has GM labor
worried too because they see a trend and it will not be long before it
hit GM auto division too. The economy (car costs and fuel prices) has
hit a wall and can no longer support wage and benfit package and still
sell products at a profit. The days of glut are over.
John Horner wrote:
I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but I did say that they
have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and underperforming
management is also at fault.
$65/hour pay packages for factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported
is accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much.
John
philthy wrote:
did you recently read where the delphi's mister miller is forgoing his
1.5 million a
year base pay for the next year! and u blame the uaw i think not add
the sum to the 32
top exucs they fired and that adds up the the debt the company owes!
John Horner wrote:
philthy wrote:
the real nasty thing that bothers me about all this is the fact that
companies
from other countries come here and build factories and make money
and employ our
citizens at a fair and living wage while our companies founded here
either move
out of our country or close
Almost none of the transplant factories are unionionized, and although
they pay good wages for their regions they pay far less than do GM, Ford
or Chrysler.
One of the bad side effects of the high UAW wages is that US companies
are doubly motivated to build factories outside of the US/Canada where
they are away from the UAW. Ditto for the parts suppliers.
The UAW has over time become part of the problem.
John
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philthy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 1:31 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
9 out of 10 companies fail due to poor management not from the workers
greed has taken way over
example my wife made a tubing part for gm a/c lines on the tahoe and it was
sold to them for 28.00 each complete
it's the lines that went from front to the rear a'/c
and (by the way this company exported all the work in the mid 90's to mexico)
that same part sold over the counter at a dealer with gm setting the price sold
for 465. 00 each simple put greed
over 5 times what it cost to make it was sold for
warranty costing was 255.00
now let me tell yopu about the germans at d.c the jeep xj has a drivers door
harness the fails all the time the harness use to cost 60.00 when jeep owned
jeep
then the germs took over that same harness went to 134.00 and nows it's well
over 165
now for a fact i seen what it cost jeep to make the 4.7 engine from the time it
was put on the board to the time it fired up in a jeep on i seen the cost sheet
a exc. left on his seat while i did the oil change and seen the sheet at a
dealer near the tech center
it cost jeep 1600.00 and that also included uaw folks on that sheet that same
engine over the counter as a whole long block is 10,000 thats 4 times more than
it cost to make simple put greed to the max not just making money but gouging
people out and out
Sarge wrote:
| Quote: | John Horner wrote: "I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but I
did say that they have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and
underperforming management is also at fault. $65/hour pay packages for
factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported is
accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much."
What would call competitive hourly wage package? What to you think people
working in oil refineries and most major chemical plants make per hour?
Today benefits probably cost more then hourly wages. According to the
articles I read, Delphi employees make 27 dollars per hour plus benefits
that brings total wage package to 60 dollars and hour. I not sure what in
their benefit package but that equals more then the hourly wages. I would
bet the majority is health insurance cost.
Here is what Delphi agreed to in the last contract: Take a look at the last
one. Delphi has increased top managements wages during this contract and
even sweeten the severance package of its top executives while wanting the
hourly workers to take a 50% pay cut and bring in new hires at 14 dollars
and hour. Top management failed to abide by the contract in more then one
way.
Delphi Commitments
As part of those discussions, Delphi must commit in definitive, enforceable
terms to:
make sufficient capital investments in UAW-represented plants to allow them
to be competitive, improve product quality, improve operational
effectiveness, and be viable for the long term;
allocate new product, both GM and non-GM, to UAW-represented facilities;
focus on maintaining present GM business, winning back GM business lost
since the spin-off and winning new GM business;
develop enhanced retirement and separation incentives for employees;
an appropriate level of supervisory staffing, as determined by mutual
agreement, along with procedures to jointly review the supervisory staffing
level on an ongoing basis;
negotiate and implement operating practices that are competitive in the U.S.
car and truck component industry;
the principle of "equivalence of sacrifice" when establishing compensation
and benefit levels for management to ensure that sacrifices made by
UAW-represented employees are reflected in the pay and benefit practices of
all non-represented employees. Top management must take the lead by
accepting compensation and benefit reductions at least as large in
percentage terms as those sustained by new hires.
Sarge |
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Grayfox
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 6:40 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
philthy wrote:
| Quote: | 9 out of 10 companies fail due to poor management not from the workers
|
Where did you get that stat from? You sound like a banker. Sometimes
poor management simply means that management pays the workers too much!
Did you ever hear of the N.H.L.? Or any of the North American auto
makers for that matter. And wages are often almost dictated by union
bargaining with the first company they meet at the table, to set the
pattern. Little to do with the auto company's ability to pay the
sometimes outrageous wage demands.
| Quote: | greed has taken way over
example my wife made a tubing part for gm a/c lines on the tahoe and it was
sold to them for 28.00 each complete
|
When you say that "greed has taken over", are you referring to your
wife? And just what was your wife's hourly wage & benefits? What was her
department's cost in making that part? Give us the full story dude!
| Quote: | it's the lines that went from front to the rear a'/c
and (by the way this company exported all the work in the mid 90's to mexico)
that same part sold over the counter at a dealer with gm setting the price sold
for 465. 00 each simple put greed
over 5 times what it cost to make it was sold for
warranty costing was 255.00
|
Perhaps that's what they had to sell it for to be able to pay your wife
and the others in her department. You seem to make no allowance in your
calulations for normal overhead in your wife's department and GM's
overhead. Accounting doesn't appear to be your strength.
| Quote: | now let me tell yopu about the germans at d.c the jeep xj has a drivers door
harness the fails all the time the harness use to cost 60.00 when jeep owned
jeep
then the germs took over that same harness went to 134.00 and nows it's well
over 165
|
How much have employee wages increased during the same period? Have
Chrysler's fixed costs increased over that same time? Check it out - you
may find a direct correlation.
| Quote: | now for a fact i seen what it cost jeep to make the 4.7 engine from the time it
was put on the board to the time it fired up in a jeep on i seen the cost sheet
a exc. left on his seat while i did the oil change and seen the sheet at a
dealer near the tech center
it cost jeep 1600.00 and that also included uaw folks on that sheet that same
engine over the counter as a whole long block is 10,000 thats 4 times more than
it cost to make simple put greed to the max not just making money but gouging
people out and out
|
If you are so well informed on the costs of the jeep 4.7 engine, please
tell us how many millions of dollars went into the development of the
engine. You do realize that developmental costs are also built into the
wholesale/retail price of a product, don't you? Have you ever bought a
prescription drug? (Judging by your rant, you may have been on one or
more when you wrote your silly message!) Do you think a prescription
drug sells for the cost of the material to make it, plus the wages? Not
bloody likely dude! You pay for the development costs.
| Quote: | Sarge wrote:
John Horner wrote: "I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but I
did say that they have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and
underperforming management is also at fault. $65/hour pay packages for
factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported is
accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much."
What would call competitive hourly wage package? What to you think people
working in oil refineries and most major chemical plants make per hour?
Today benefits probably cost more then hourly wages. According to the
articles I read, Delphi employees make 27 dollars per hour plus benefits
that brings total wage package to 60 dollars and hour. I not sure what in
their benefit package but that equals more then the hourly wages. I would
bet the majority is health insurance cost.
Here is what Delphi agreed to in the last contract: Take a look at the last
one. Delphi has increased top managements wages during this contract and
even sweeten the severance package of its top executives while wanting the
hourly workers to take a 50% pay cut and bring in new hires at 14 dollars
and hour. Top management failed to abide by the contract in more then one
way.
Delphi Commitments
As part of those discussions, Delphi must commit in definitive, enforceable
terms to:
make sufficient capital investments in UAW-represented plants to allow them
to be competitive, improve product quality, improve operational
effectiveness, and be viable for the long term;
allocate new product, both GM and non-GM, to UAW-represented facilities;
focus on maintaining present GM business, winning back GM business lost
since the spin-off and winning new GM business;
develop enhanced retirement and separation incentives for employees;
an appropriate level of supervisory staffing, as determined by mutual
agreement, along with procedures to jointly review the supervisory staffing
level on an ongoing basis;
negotiate and implement operating practices that are competitive in the U.S.
car and truck component industry;
the principle of "equivalence of sacrifice" when establishing compensation
and benefit levels for management to ensure that sacrifices made by
UAW-represented employees are reflected in the pay and benefit practices of
all non-represented employees. Top management must take the lead by
accepting compensation and benefit reductions at least as large in
percentage terms as those sustained by new hires.
Sarge
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ng_reader
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 1:24 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
"Grayfox" <grayfox1212@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Q4GdnXKjduw-BcTeRVn-qQ@rogers.com...
| Quote: | philthy wrote:
9 out of 10 companies fail due to poor management not from the workers
Where did you get that stat from? You sound like a banker. Sometimes
poor management simply means that management pays the workers too much!
Did you ever hear of the N.H.L.? Or any of the North American auto
makers for that matter. And wages are often almost dictated by union
bargaining with the first company they meet at the table, to set the
pattern. Little to do with the auto company's ability to pay the
sometimes outrageous wage demands.
greed has taken way over
example my wife made a tubing part for gm a/c lines on the tahoe and it
was
sold to them for 28.00 each complete
When you say that "greed has taken over", are you referring to your
wife? And just what was your wife's hourly wage & benefits? What was her
department's cost in making that part? Give us the full story dude!
it's the lines that went from front to the rear a'/c
and (by the way this company exported all the work in the mid 90's to
mexico)
that same part sold over the counter at a dealer with gm setting the
price sold
for 465. 00 each simple put greed
over 5 times what it cost to make it was sold for
warranty costing was 255.00
Perhaps that's what they had to sell it for to be able to pay your wife
and the others in her department. You seem to make no allowance in your
calulations for normal overhead in your wife's department and GM's
overhead. Accounting doesn't appear to be your strength.
now let me tell yopu about the germans at d.c the jeep xj has a drivers
door
harness the fails all the time the harness use to cost 60.00 when jeep
owned
jeep
then the germs took over that same harness went to 134.00 and nows it's
well
over 165
How much have employee wages increased during the same period? Have
Chrysler's fixed costs increased over that same time? Check it out - you
may find a direct correlation.
now for a fact i seen what it cost jeep to make the 4.7 engine from the
time it
was put on the board to the time it fired up in a jeep on i seen the
cost sheet
a exc. left on his seat while i did the oil change and seen the sheet
at a
dealer near the tech center
it cost jeep 1600.00 and that also included uaw folks on that sheet
that same
engine over the counter as a whole long block is 10,000 thats 4 times
more than
it cost to make simple put greed to the max not just making money but
gouging
people out and out
If you are so well informed on the costs of the jeep 4.7 engine, please
tell us how many millions of dollars went into the development of the
engine. You do realize that developmental costs are also built into the
wholesale/retail price of a product, don't you? Have you ever bought a
prescription drug? (Judging by your rant, you may have been on one or
more when you wrote your silly message!) Do you think a prescription
drug sells for the cost of the material to make it, plus the wages? Not
bloody likely dude! You pay for the development costs.
Sarge wrote:
John Horner wrote: "I didn't say that the UAW was the whole problem, but
I
did say that they have become *part of the problem*. Overpaid and
underperforming management is also at fault. $65/hour pay packages for
factory labor is not at all a realistic or
competetive wage, assuming that this $65 number which is being reported
is
accurate. $1.5M / year for the boss is also way too much."
What would call competitive hourly wage package? What to you think
people
working in oil refineries and most major chemical plants make per hour?
Today benefits probably cost more then hourly wages. According to the
articles I read, Delphi employees make 27 dollars per hour plus benefits
that brings total wage package to 60 dollars and hour. I not sure what
in
their benefit package but that equals more then the hourly wages. I
would
bet the majority is health insurance cost.
Here is what Delphi agreed to in the last contract: Take a look at the
last
one. Delphi has increased top managements wages during this contract
and
even sweeten the severance package of its top executives while wanting
the
hourly workers to take a 50% pay cut and bring in new hires at 14
dollars
and hour. Top management failed to abide by the contract in more then
one
way.
Delphi Commitments
As part of those discussions, Delphi must commit in definitive,
enforceable
terms to:
make sufficient capital investments in UAW-represented plants to allow
them
to be competitive, improve product quality, improve operational
effectiveness, and be viable for the long term;
allocate new product, both GM and non-GM, to UAW-represented facilities;
focus on maintaining present GM business, winning back GM business lost
since the spin-off and winning new GM business;
develop enhanced retirement and separation incentives for employees;
an appropriate level of supervisory staffing, as determined by mutual
agreement, along with procedures to jointly review the supervisory
staffing
level on an ongoing basis;
negotiate and implement operating practices that are competitive in the
U.S.
car and truck component industry;
the principle of "equivalence of sacrifice" when establishing
compensation
and benefit levels for management to ensure that sacrifices made by
UAW-represented employees are reflected in the pay and benefit practices
of
all non-represented employees. Top management must take the lead by
accepting compensation and benefit reductions at least as large in
percentage terms as those sustained by new hires.
Sarge
|
I wouldn't say it was a silly rant. But I wouldn't say yours was worthless
either. You are both right.
It would not be the first time management overpaid workers to their demise.
Nor will it be the last.
Price gouging on parts is nothing new. My 2003 olds has alloy wheels. One
bent. $550 for a new one.
WTF? I'm driving a POC car, the cheapest one I could afford. Did I somehow
personally insult GM or something to have them want to do this to me???
In the mid 1980's they made a pick-up truck (GM) with a gas tank too close
to the side. It was fatal to some unlucky souls. The federal government
went through it's clock cycles, juris prudence, etc. and TOLD GM to fix the
gas tank placement.
GM said no, go to hell, in so many words, and that was that.
So I'm sure they will start bitching in Detroit, asking for their hand-outs
because they are so vital to our economy, and someone is going to vote in
congress or the house or wherever to get them some free money. But I say F
them.
Like the airlines, begging for money. 911 was a catastrophe! We need
financial assistance!!!
Well F you. 9000 different fares for the same plane trip. $1000 for a
flight from Philadelphia to Pittsburgh. In coach, no less.
Sorry, and good night, funny man. |
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John Horner
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:14 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
Mike Hunter wrote:
| Quote: | Your argument does not make sense. Non union assembly plants, like those
operated by Toyota, offer their employees a much lower wage and benefits
package than union plants but toyotas vehicles have a higher MSRP than the
similar sized and equipped vehicles sold by the domestics. You should do a
bit more research before you decide to post your personal opinions on a
subject of which you apparently have little or no knowledge.
mike hunt
|
Toyota is a highly profitable company which constantly invests in new
technology and new models. They have strongly competitive vehicles in
EVERY category in which they play. GM and Ford have been loosing
money, underinvesting in R&D and rarely have strong vehicles in any more
than a few categories at a time.
If you compare sticker prices, Toyotas and Hondas are priced quite
comparably to similar domestic models. The lower prices people are
actually paying for the domestics are due to the endless rebates,
incentives, sales, etc. which have become neccessary to move Detroit's
substandard products out the door.
John |
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TheSnoMan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 8:14 am Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
John Horner wrote:
| Quote: | Mike Hunter wrote:
Your argument does not make sense. Non union assembly plants, like
those operated by Toyota, offer their employees a much lower wage and
benefits package than union plants but toyotas vehicles have a higher
MSRP than the similar sized and equipped vehicles sold by the
domestics. You should do a bit more research before you decide to
post your personal opinions on a subject of which you apparently have
little or no knowledge.
mike hunt
Toyota is a highly profitable company which constantly invests in new
technology and new models. They have strongly competitive vehicles in
EVERY category in which they play. GM and Ford have been loosing
money, underinvesting in R&D and rarely have strong vehicles in any more
than a few categories at a time.
If you compare sticker prices, Toyotas and Hondas are priced quite
comparably to similar domestic models. The lower prices people are
actually paying for the domestics are due to the endless rebates,
incentives, sales, etc. which have become neccessary to move Detroit's
substandard products out the door.
John
|
Also Toyota is not paying 60 to 70 bucks an hour is wages and benifits
and can spend more time on quality and design. I have owned a few Yota's
and they were fine cars and very trouble free too. |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
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|
You are entitled to your opinion but it is that of a minority. You like
every buyer is free to spend their money wherever they wish. Toyota offer
rebates to sell their vehicles as well and is indeed profitable. They
should be, because they are charging way too much for their underpowered
vehicles not because of high sales numbers. GM sell three times as many,
Ford more than twice as many and Chrysler also out sells Toyota. Toyota
'leads' in only one model, the Corolla. Toyota is not the number one
selling car brand, GM is. Ford is the number one selling truck brand not
Toyota. Both GM and Ford sells more trucks in a month than Toyota sells in
a year. The F150 is the number one selling vehicle on the planet and has
been for 29 years, The Escape is the number one small SUV. Buyers vote on
who they believe offer the best vehicles, at the best prices, with the
wallets and GM and Ford as well as Chrysler far outsell any import brand.
Toyota is a distant fourth. In the real world those three outsell ALL of
the import brands combined.
"John Horner" <jthorner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ajD6f.2294$HW5.802@trnddc04...
| Quote: | Mike Hunter wrote:
Your argument does not make sense. Non union assembly plants, like those
operated by Toyota, offer their employees a much lower wage and benefits
package than union plants but toyotas vehicles have a higher MSRP than
the similar sized and equipped vehicles sold by the domestics. You
should do a bit more research before you decide to post your personal
opinions on a subject of which you apparently have little or no
knowledge.
mike hunt
Toyota is a highly profitable company which constantly invests in new
technology and new models. They have strongly competitive vehicles in
EVERY category in which they play. GM and Ford have been loosing money,
underinvesting in R&D and rarely have strong vehicles in any more than a
few categories at a time.
If you compare sticker prices, Toyotas and Hondas are priced quite
comparably to similar domestic models. The lower prices people are
actually paying for the domestics are due to the endless rebates,
incentives, sales, etc. which have become neccessary to move Detroit's
substandard products out the door.
John |
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Mike Hunter
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Oct 23, 2005 6:24 pm Post subject:
Re: Delphi Proposal to Cut Wages in Half! |
|
|
Just like those of most evey other munfacture today whose vehciles cost less
to drive home ;)
mike hunt
..
"TheSnoMan" <admin@snoman.com> wrote in message
news:aQD6f.18055$vw6.3601@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
| Quote: | John Horner wrote:
Mike Hunter wrote:
Your argument does not make sense. Non union assembly plants, like
those operated by Toyota, offer their employees a much lower wage and
benefits package than union plants but toyotas vehicles have a higher
MSRP than the similar sized and equipped vehicles sold by the domestics.
You should do a bit more research before you decide to post your
personal opinions on a subject of which you apparently have little or no
knowledge.
mike hunt
Also Toyota is not paying 60 to 70 bucks an hour is wages and benifits and
can spend more time on quality and design. I have owned a few Yota's and
they were fine cars and very trouble free too. |
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