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John Doe II
Guest
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 Posted:
Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Porsche + VW =? |
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Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car company?
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John Doe II
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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"The Dead Senator" <deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:reGdncHDFepi_t7eRVn-hA@comcast.com...
| Quote: | John Doe II wrote:
Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car
company?
They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
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I hope it's more than that!!!! |
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The Dead Senator
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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John Doe II wrote:
| Quote: | Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car company?
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They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
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Low Life #3
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 05, 2005 4:06 pm Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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"John Doe II" <firsTraveler@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:ofKdnWFDruR_2t7eRVn-qw@centurytel.net...
: Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
: tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car
company?
Daimler Chrysler is also taking a stake in VW. The *square-heads* are
afraid of VW becoming the target of a hostile takeover by a foreign auto
firm. VW was protected from hostile takeover by a law conveniently called
the VW Law, but Brussels declared it to be counter to the free flow of
money, goods, & services within the EU. |
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E Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Oct 05, 2005 8:53 pm Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:26:21 -0700, The Dead Senator
<deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote:
| Quote: | John Doe II wrote:
Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car company?
They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
|
And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family
has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one
of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so
many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne,
and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial
interest to keep VW alive.
Emanuel
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black |
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Chicago Paddling-Fishing
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 06, 2005 3:53 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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E Brown <epbrown01@att.net> wrote:
: On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:26:21 -0700, The Dead Senator
: <deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote:
:>John Doe II wrote:
:>> Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
:>> tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car company?
:>>
:>They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
: And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family
: has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one
: of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so
: many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne,
: and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial
: interest to keep VW alive.
: Emanuel
Well... remember that Piech (former VW CEO) is a Porsche...
--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell) |
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John Doe II
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 06, 2005 4:06 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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"E Brown" <epbrown01@att.net> wrote in message
news:h4t7k19lti3cjkkculflqcrmjskjb6sd3a@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:26:21 -0700, The Dead Senator
deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Doe II wrote:
Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car
company?
They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family
has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one
of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so
many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne,
and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial
interest to keep VW alive.
Emanuel
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
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Yes I know that, and it's still a bad reason to make financial decisions for
a publicly traded corporation. |
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The Dead Senator
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:15 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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John Doe II wrote:
| Quote: | "E Brown" <epbrown01@att.net> wrote in message
news:h4t7k19lti3cjkkculflqcrmjskjb6sd3a@4ax.com...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:26:21 -0700, The Dead Senator
deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Doe II wrote:
Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car
company?
They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family
has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one
of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so
many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne,
and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial
interest to keep VW alive.
Emanuel
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
Yes I know that, and it's still a bad reason to make financial decisions for
a publicly traded corporation.
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Why? Because Porsche has fared so poorly? |
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E Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:28 pm Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:06:29 -0700, "John Doe II"
<firsTraveler@centurytel.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Yes I know that, and it's still a bad reason to make financial decisions for
a publicly traded corporation.
|
The company is publicly traded but the only significant
shareholders are family and close friends, as far as I know. And I
think that's the wrong way to look at it anyway.
The 90s gave Porsche AG a scare - they want to remain an
independent company and until the Boxster they were in danger of going
under or being bought out by someone bigger, the way Ferrari,
Lamborghini, Jaguar, Skoda, and Aston Martin were. Almost every move
they've made since the recovery has been to lower cost to increase
profits and improve their position to the point where a few bad years
doesn't risk losing the company bearing the family name. Buying 20% of
VWAG lets them affiliate with a larger company on their own terms, and
it's a company the family has pretty much in full-nelson
Emanuel
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black |
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John Doe II
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:08 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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"The Dead Senator" <deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BqudnVVJJIonP9neRVn-gA@comcast.com...
| Quote: | John Doe II wrote:
"E Brown" <epbrown01@att.net> wrote in message
news:h4t7k19lti3cjkkculflqcrmjskjb6sd3a@4ax.com...
On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:26:21 -0700, The Dead Senator
deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Doe II wrote:
Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee
your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car
company?
They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family
has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one
of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so
many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne,
and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial
interest to keep VW alive.
Emanuel
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
Yes I know that, and it's still a bad reason to make financial decisions
for a publicly traded corporation.
Why? Because Porsche has fared so poorly?
|
No, because VW (except for Audi and a few other bits) is in a hopelessly
hypercompetitive market which is very unlikely to be significantly
profitable for the foreseeable future. |
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Chicago Paddling-Fishing
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 7:38 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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E Brown <epbrown01@att.net> wrote:
: On Wed, 5 Oct 2005 16:06:29 -0700, "John Doe II"
: <firsTraveler@centurytel.net> wrote:
:>Yes I know that, and it's still a bad reason to make financial decisions for
:>a publicly traded corporation.
: The company is publicly traded but the only significant
: shareholders are family and close friends, as far as I know. And I
: think that's the wrong way to look at it anyway.
: The 90s gave Porsche AG a scare - they want to remain an
: independent company and until the Boxster they were in danger of going
: under or being bought out by someone bigger, the way Ferrari,
: Lamborghini, Jaguar, Skoda, and Aston Martin were. Almost every move
: they've made since the recovery has been to lower cost to increase
: profits and improve their position to the point where a few bad years
: doesn't risk losing the company bearing the family name. Buying 20% of
: VWAG lets them affiliate with a larger company on their own terms, and
: it's a company the family has pretty much in full-nelson
: Emanuel
: --
: 2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
: 2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
You sure it was the 90's? Seems to me the 70's were nearly a disaster for
them and the 70's buried Ferrari, Lancia and most of the other independents..
--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell) |
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vricardo
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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Yes, there are a lot of ties between the two families (and brands), after
all Ferdinand Piech is the son of Louise Piech, Ferdinand Porsche's
daughter... but that's not the point. The point is that, even if the
rumors of that stock operation have been dismissed, the Panamera will most
probably be a sister car to the new Lamborghini Espada, that, as you know,
is owned by Audi...
Take care! |
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E Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:08 pm Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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On Fri, 7 Oct 2005 07:38:17 +0000 (UTC), Chicago Paddling-Fishing
<jwn@ripco.com> wrote:
| Quote: | You sure it was the 90's? Seems to me the 70's were nearly a disaster for
them and the 70's buried Ferrari, Lancia and most of the other independents..
|
They've had a bad patch during every decade :). In the 70s, the
fuel crisis hurt them, like most other high performance sellers. In
the 80s, the 944 pulled their asses out of the fire for a few years,
and then Black Monday hit and sales dropped off again. Wiedeking
greenlighted the Boxster and the 993, which pulled a rabbit out of a
hat, but he's the first CEO to decide "This shit can't keep
happening." Since then, he's worked to increase profitability by
cheaper production methods (making the Boxster/Carrera lines as
similar as possible, just-in-time mfg methods, etc) and broadening the
market base. He pretty much wants Porsche to be like BMW was in the
early 90s; ironic now that BMW wants to be GM.
Porsche and all the other sports car companies were too vulnerable
to market trends because all of their products were seen as expensive
toys. Their customers still have the cash, but their mindset changes
and instead of spending $90k on a sports car, they spend $90k on a
Range Rover or BMW M5. After all, SUVs and sedans are "practical."
With the Cayenne and Panamera, Porsche will have something to sell
when it's not en vogue to buy a Boxster or 911. It's already worked -
911 and Boxster sales took a dive a few years ago, but the Cayenne was
there to make up the sales.
To produce so many model lines means adding capacity or finding a
production partner - enter VW. They're already working together on a
couple of projects and the only other company the government might
allow such a deal with is DaimlerChrysler which 1) is having troubles
of it's own and 2) is big enough to turn partnership agreement into
takover.
Emanuel
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black |
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John Doe II
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:09 am Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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"vricardo" <vricardo@nospam.mce.iol.pt> wrote in message
news:a3079a95487c8061e758686438eb87eb@localhost.talkaboutautos.com...
| Quote: | Yes, there are a lot of ties between the two families (and brands), after
all Ferdinand Piech is the son of Louise Piech, Ferdinand Porsche's
daughter... but that's not the point. The point is that, even if the
rumors of that stock operation have been dismissed, the Panamera will most
probably be a sister car to the new Lamborghini Espada, that, as you know,
is owned by Audi...
Take care!
|
Maybe Porsche wants the too find out why a Veyron can run over a GT? |
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Dan Stephenson
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:33 pm Post subject:
Re: Porsche + VW =? |
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In article <h4t7k19lti3cjkkculflqcrmjskjb6sd3a@4ax.com>, E Brown
<epbrown01@att.net> wrote:
| Quote: | On Tue, 04 Oct 2005 22:26:21 -0700, The Dead Senator
deadsenator@hotmail.com> wrote:
John Doe II wrote:
Porsche may soon own ~19% of VW. I understand wanting to guarantee your
tech/parts partner, but putting that much money in a also-ran car
company?
They are inseparable. Ferdinand created the VeeDub.
And I don't think John Doe II knows that the Porsche/Piech family
has a majority stake in Volkswagen Audi Group, and until recently one
of the family was running the company. This is why Porsche has done so
many collaborations with Volkswagen over the years(914, 924, Cayenne,
and reportedly the upcoming Panamera). It's in their own financial
interest to keep VW alive.
|
Hang on, I thought VW was one of the largest car companies in the
world. It seems strange for a tiny company like Porsche to "invest" in
VW. Please explain.
| Quote: | Emanuel
--
2003 BMW 325i Black/Black
2003 BMW Z4 Black/Black
|
--
Dan Stephenson
Photos and movies from US Parks and all over Europe:
http://homepage.mac.com/stepheda |
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