| Author |
Message |
Karl
Guest
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 Posted:
Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:01 pm Post subject:
2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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Hi,
I'm thinking very seriously of purchasing either a 2002 A4 3.0 Quattro, or
the BMW 325 XI from roughly the same year.
I've read all the stuff about performance, safety, etc, etc. So I don't
need a lot of input in that department.
However, I am having a hard time finding good data on the reliability /
expense of repairs / maintenance of these cars. All the reviews I've seen
are from the year they came out. Now that 3-4 years have elapsed since the
release of the cars from that year I'd like to know which of these cars has
proven itself to be more reliable, have fewer problems and is less
expensive to fix.
A good friend who works in a used luxury car dealership, and is presumably
neutral on the issue, advised me very seriously to go with the BMW as the
Audi according to him "has a lot of problems and is more expensive to fix".
I'm aware that both are fairly high performance cars and as such will be
more prone to problems than the 1994 toyota pickup (135,000 miles and NEVER
been in the shop for anything besides maintenance) it will replace. But I
would think at this time one would have shown itself to be more reliable
than the other.
Does anyone have any input either way? Or better yet, some kind of long
term comprehensive data on the web I can look at?
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Karl
Guest
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| Posted:
Sun Sep 11, 2005 11:27 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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karl@csu.edu.co (Karl) wrote in <96CE785C4karlcsueduco@216.196.97.136>:
| Quote: | Hi,
I'm thinking very seriously of purchasing either a 2002 A4 3.0 Quattro,
or the BMW 325 XI from roughly the same year.
|
(snip)
Oh I should probably add, my interest extends only to a manual tranny. I
have no need for CVT, tiptronics, Striptronics or any of that kind of
thang. |
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JimV
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 12:14 am Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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For what it's worth, my wife had a '02 A4 3.0Q and it was the worst car
we've ever owned. I can't even remember all the things that failed. Some
major (engine issues) and lots minor (leaking hose clamps and bad
electrical connectors). It's the last Audi we'll ever buy.
Karl wrote:
| Quote: | Hi,
I'm thinking very seriously of purchasing either a 2002 A4 3.0 Quattro, or
the BMW 325 XI from roughly the same year.
I've read all the stuff about performance, safety, etc, etc. So I don't
need a lot of input in that department.
However, I am having a hard time finding good data on the reliability /
expense of repairs / maintenance of these cars. All the reviews I've seen
are from the year they came out. Now that 3-4 years have elapsed since the
release of the cars from that year I'd like to know which of these cars has
proven itself to be more reliable, have fewer problems and is less
expensive to fix.
A good friend who works in a used luxury car dealership, and is presumably
neutral on the issue, advised me very seriously to go with the BMW as the
Audi according to him "has a lot of problems and is more expensive to fix".
I'm aware that both are fairly high performance cars and as such will be
more prone to problems than the 1994 toyota pickup (135,000 miles and NEVER
been in the shop for anything besides maintenance) it will replace. But I
would think at this time one would have shown itself to be more reliable
than the other.
Does anyone have any input either way? Or better yet, some kind of long
term comprehensive data on the web I can look at? |
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Douglas Siebert
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:27 am Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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JimV <jv9999@yahoo.com> writes:
| Quote: | For what it's worth, my wife had a '02 A4 3.0Q and it was the worst car
we've ever owned. I can't even remember all the things that failed. Some
major (engine issues) and lots minor (leaking hose clamps and bad
electrical connectors). It's the last Audi we'll ever buy.
|
Just goes to show you never know what you'll get. I have a 2002 A4 3.0Q
and I've had exactly two problems with it. One of the dozen of so speakers
had some light static on it -- I hadn't even noticed it at first, an
audiophile friend of my commented on it when I brought it by for a visit
a couple days after I got it. That was replaced, then a few months ago
(2+ years after getting the car) the sunroof sometimes would shut again
after I'd opened it. They had to order a part and it was replaced and that
was the end of that. Never had any problems with the engine, tranny,
brakes, steering, and other important stuff like that which is needed to
actually get where you need to go safely.
The guy who started this thread is probably WAY better off checking with
Consumer Reports or the like to see what their actual measured data states
about the reliability of the two models in question versus asking in the
Audi and BMW groups for personal or "friend of a friend" type individual
anecdotes.
--
Douglas Siebert dsiebert@excisethis.khamsin.net
"Pure democracy is three wolves and two sheep voting on what to eat for
dinner." -- Benjamin Franklin, on why the US is a Republic and not a Democracy |
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Tony
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 5:35 am Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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In an earlier thread about an '86 T44 I was suggesting that the problem was the
fuel tank lining peeling off and clogging the fuel pump intake screen
intermittently. I would think that this may be your problem too.
Fix:
-cut intake screen off pump and replace fuel filter more often.
You might also have a weak fuel pump relay.
JimV wrote:
| Quote: | For what it's worth, my wife had a '02 A4 3.0Q and it was the worst car
we've ever owned. I can't even remember all the things that failed. Some
major (engine issues) and lots minor (leaking hose clamps and bad
electrical connectors). It's the last Audi we'll ever buy.
Karl wrote:
Hi,
I'm thinking very seriously of purchasing either a 2002 A4 3.0
Quattro, or the BMW 325 XI from roughly the same year.
I've read all the stuff about performance, safety, etc, etc. So I
don't need a lot of input in that department.
However, I am having a hard time finding good data on the reliability
/ expense of repairs / maintenance of these cars. All the reviews
I've seen are from the year they came out. Now that 3-4 years have
elapsed since the release of the cars from that year I'd like to know
which of these cars has proven itself to be more reliable, have fewer
problems and is less expensive to fix.
A good friend who works in a used luxury car dealership, and is
presumably neutral on the issue, advised me very seriously to go with
the BMW as the Audi according to him "has a lot of problems and is
more expensive to fix".
I'm aware that both are fairly high performance cars and as such will
be more prone to problems than the 1994 toyota pickup (135,000 miles
and NEVER been in the shop for anything besides maintenance) it will
replace. But I would think at this time one would have shown itself
to be more reliable than the other.
Does anyone have any input either way? Or better yet, some kind of
long term comprehensive data on the web I can look at? |
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cp
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:13 am Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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Save yourself money and get yourself an early 90's low mileage well maintained turbo quattro. A typical driver (not a newbie of
course), if you're one, wouldn't be able to maximze his car's capabilities anyways, at least from what I can tell from the new audis
I've smoked in my '86 TQ, which is more than a typical Audi driver can handle, though admittedly I did hit a traffic island last
winter, no more cr@ppy tires :-)
Audi S6 Turbo Quattro
http://tinyurl.com/b493b
http://tinyurl.com/dzhxm
cp
"Karl" <karl@csu.edu.co> wrote in message news:96CE785C4karlcsueduco@216.196.97.136...
| Quote: | Hi,
I'm thinking very seriously of purchasing either a 2002 A4 3.0 Quattro, or
the BMW 325 XI from roughly the same year.
I've read all the stuff about performance, safety, etc, etc. So I don't
need a lot of input in that department.
However, I am having a hard time finding good data on the reliability /
expense of repairs / maintenance of these cars. All the reviews I've seen
are from the year they came out. Now that 3-4 years have elapsed since the
release of the cars from that year I'd like to know which of these cars has
proven itself to be more reliable, have fewer problems and is less
expensive to fix.
A good friend who works in a used luxury car dealership, and is presumably
neutral on the issue, advised me very seriously to go with the BMW as the
Audi according to him "has a lot of problems and is more expensive to fix".
I'm aware that both are fairly high performance cars and as such will be
more prone to problems than the 1994 toyota pickup (135,000 miles and NEVER
been in the shop for anything besides maintenance) it will replace. But I
would think at this time one would have shown itself to be more reliable
than the other.
Does anyone have any input either way? Or better yet, some kind of long
term comprehensive data on the web I can look at? |
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| Back to top |
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Bob
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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The only complaint I have about my 2003 A4-3.0QM is that the manual transmission
is VERY GRABBY. It's hard to get smooth shifts, like I could get with many other
manuals I've owned. It seems like it's a pretty heavy duty clutch plate/disc/springs
mechanism. I don't know how long the drivetrain components (e.g., CV joints, U-joints,
etc.) will last with such a heavy duty clutch. And I would rather have a nicely geared
5-speed than a 6-speed. 1st gear only takes me up to 20 mph before it's at redline.
I start out in 2nd a lot. I've been to over 120mph on occasion and it handles like
a dream. Smooth and stable.
When the car goes, it really goes. I LOVE the performance when I'm pushing it.
With the snow tires I got, no amount of snow or ice ever gave me any problems.
In the winter there's no equal to Quattro and a good set of snow tires. It holds
the road in dry, wet, and snow without body roll (sport suspension). EXCELLENT
handling, and the 3.0 engine is great. I don't have experience with BMW's 2.5l engine,
but the 3.0 is fine for me. I thought of the 325ix as well, but I wanted
the power of the 3.0 vs. a 2.5. I was in a 325ix at the auto show, and I personally
liked the A4's interior better. I have a friend who drives a BWM (745i) and he says
he likes my interior better too.
I've had only one problem in two years - a "clutch switch" went faulty. No drivability
issues at all. I didn't even know until the MIL light came on. Dealer fixed it under
warranty. That's it. For the $$, I got the 3.0Q. I bought it new, and I don't know
what the differences are between the 2003 and the 2002 model.
Karl wrote:
| Quote: | karl@csu.edu.co (Karl) wrote in <96CE785C4karlcsueduco@216.196.97.136>:
Hi,
I'm thinking very seriously of purchasing either a 2002 A4 3.0 Quattro,
or the BMW 325 XI from roughly the same year.
(snip)
Oh I should probably add, my interest extends only to a manual tranny. I
have no need for CVT, tiptronics, Striptronics or any of that kind of
thang. |
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Ian S
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:11 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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According to Consumer Reports, the 2002 year was not a good one for the A4
V6. Three areas, electrical, ignition and power equipment, were either worse
than average or much worse than average; the overall reliability rating was
worse than average. It's specifically listed in their "Used Cars to Avoid"
listing. In contrast, the BMW 3 series for 2002 had no areas worse than
average and an overall reliability of better than average. The 2002 3 series
was specifically listed in their list of "Reliable Used Cars." |
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Karl
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 9:35 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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Ah, interesting. Thats the kind of info I am looking for. It's a tough
choice. The A4 has the nicer interior and is more powerful. But the BMW
looks a lot sharper outside - perhaps even a bit TOO nice, bordering on
flashy- and is apparently more fun to drive although I guess it is somewhat
underpowered and more expensive.
Yes, I do need to go test drive them both still...
But in thinking long range, an A4 that spends more time in the shop will
likely eventually cost me as much (if not more) than the 325.
I should add that I plan to DRIVE whichever car I end up with. I love to
drive for its own sake and used to drive professionally back in the early
90's. At the time I worked for a law firm in San Francisco and routinely
got lectured for "having too much fun" while chauffering the Firm's eldest
attorney (84 years old) in the company's 735i. I was not unsafe per se,
but definitely a bit aggressive for the constitution of an octogenarian.
So anyway, what I'm saying is that the car I end up with is going to have
to stand up to more than just the occasional hop down to the market. Plus
I do live in an area with a good amount of bad weather.
I'm starting to wonder if I should suck it up and try for the 330xi.
Anyone have opinions on that?
iws51remove@cox.net (Ian S) wrote in <DLhVe.14434$ct5.5787@fed1read04>:
| Quote: | According to Consumer Reports, the 2002 year was not a good one for the
A4 V6. Three areas, electrical, ignition and power equipment, were
either worse than average or much worse than average; the overall
reliability rating was worse than average. It's specifically listed in
their "Used Cars to Avoid" listing. In contrast, the BMW 3 series for
2002 had no areas worse than average and an overall reliability of
better than average. The 2002 3 series was specifically listed in their
list of "Reliable Used Cars."
|
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Karl
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 10:43 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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iws51remove@cox.net (Ian S) wrote in <DLhVe.14434$ct5.5787@fed1read04>:
| Quote: | According to Consumer Reports, the 2002 year was not a good one for the
A4 V6. Three areas, electrical, ignition and power equipment, were
either worse than average or much worse than average; the overall
reliability rating was worse than average. It's specifically listed in
their "Used Cars to Avoid" listing. In contrast, the BMW 3 series for
2002 had no areas worse than average and an overall reliability of
better than average. The 2002 3 series was specifically listed in their
list of "Reliable Used Cars."
|
Does CR have anything to say about the 2003 or even the previous model
years using the older platform? |
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Ian S
Guest
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| Posted:
Mon Sep 12, 2005 11:45 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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"Karl" <karl@csu.edu.co> wrote in message
news:96CF7E295karlcsueduco@216.196.97.136...
| Quote: | iws51remove@cox.net (Ian S) wrote in <DLhVe.14434$ct5.5787@fed1read04>:
According to Consumer Reports, the 2002 year was not a good one for the
A4 V6. Three areas, electrical, ignition and power equipment, were
either worse than average or much worse than average; the overall
reliability rating was worse than average. It's specifically listed in
their "Used Cars to Avoid" listing. In contrast, the BMW 3 series for
2002 had no areas worse than average and an overall reliability of
better than average. The 2002 3 series was specifically listed in their
list of "Reliable Used Cars."
Does CR have anything to say about the 2003 or even the previous model
years using the older platform?
|
CR has data from '97 to '04. As far as overall reliability is concerned,
only the '04 A4 rates better than average (an encouraging development); the
'01 rates average; all other years rate below average. For the 3 series,
only '02 rates above average; the '04 rates below average (a discouraging
development); all others rate average. I'd recommend a visit to
Audiworld.com and search for various trouble areas. I have a '98 A4 which
has had engine oil leaks, radiator replacement, temperature sensor replaced,
defective clutch throwout bearing, bad ventilation fan all within 65,000
miles. I have not had the notorious control arm problem and because I don't
have the computer, I didn't have its display fail as so many have. I also
missed the year where the ignition coils were defective. You'll note that
none of these items would appear related to hard use - they are simply a
result of seemingly poor design and/or shoddy quality. While some would
dismiss the CR surveys, I'd have to say that in the case of the A4, they
pretty well track the problems brought up in audiworld discussions. |
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Karl
Guest
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| Posted:
Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:03 am Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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Thanks. The more I look into it the more it seems the A4 is simply not
going to hold up, and in the long run will cost me as much as a 3 series
while providing a lot of aggravation.
An 04 Audi is going to be overly expensive I think, and besides, that's not
a long enough time period for me to trust reliability data to the point I
trust it from 2 years prior.
I'm now almost sure it's going to be a 325 or 330xi from 2002. It's
flashier looking than I'd wanted -I really like the Audi's understated
exterior- but I'd like to be the one admiring the car, not a mechanic.
| Quote: |
Does CR have anything to say about the 2003 or even the previous model
years using the older platform?
CR has data from '97 to '04. As far as overall reliability is concerned,
only the '04 A4 rates better than average (an encouraging development);
the '01 rates average; all other years rate below average. For the 3
series, only '02 rates above average; the '04 rates below average (a
discouraging development); all others rate average. I'd recommend a
visit to Audiworld.com and search for various trouble areas. I have a
'98 A4 which has had engine oil leaks, radiator replacement, temperature
sensor replaced, defective clutch throwout bearing, bad ventilation fan
all within 65,000 miles. I have not had the notorious control arm
problem and because I don't have the computer, I didn't have its display
fail as so many have. I also missed the year where the ignition coils
were defective. You'll note that none of these items would appear
related to hard use - they are simply a result of seemingly poor design
and/or shoddy quality. While some would dismiss the CR surveys, I'd have
to say that in the case of the A4, they pretty well track the problems
brought up in audiworld discussions.
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+ Rob +
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 14, 2005 2:12 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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"Ian S" <iws51remove@cox.net> wrote in message
news:DLhVe.14434$ct5.5787@fed1read04...
| Quote: | According to Consumer Reports, the 2002 year was not a good one for the A4
V6. Three areas, electrical, ignition and power equipment, were either
worse
than average or much worse than average; the overall reliability rating
was
worse than average. It's specifically listed in their "Used Cars to Avoid"
listing. In contrast, the BMW 3 series for 2002 had no areas worse than
average and an overall reliability of better than average. The 2002 3
series
was specifically listed in their list of "Reliable Used Cars."
|
Keep in mind that the primary reason for the 2002 A4's low reliability
ratings is a single problem that has now been totally rectified by a
manufacturer recall. Specifically, I'm talking about the faulty "coil packs"
(a part of the ignition system) that caused a lot of cars to suddenly quit
running. However, the bad part in question was replaced in all cars by a
completely redesigned part. So the problem, unlike the negative ratings
pertaining to it, is gone.
Rob
2002 A4 3.0Q
2005 TT 3.2 DSG |
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Darryl Okahata
Guest
|
| Posted:
Wed Sep 14, 2005 9:04 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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"+ Rob +" <spam.can@spam.mindspring.com> writes:
| Quote: | Keep in mind that the primary reason for the 2002 A4's low reliability
ratings is a single problem that has now been totally rectified by a
manufacturer recall. Specifically, I'm talking about the faulty "coil packs"
(a part of the ignition system) that caused a lot of cars to suddenly quit
running. However, the bad part in question was replaced in all cars by a
completely redesigned part. So the problem, unlike the negative ratings
pertaining to it, is gone.
|
In all fairness, some BMWs have had similar problems, although I
don't remember hearing of any cars "suddenly quitting" because of it.
For some 2001-2003 BMWs, the engine may run roughly and the check engine
light might come on, due to deterioration of the spark plug coils.
There's a BMW TSB on this:
http://www.rasmus.ca/bmw/coil_TSB.pdf
Heh. Given the timeframe, I wonder if similar parts were used in both
BMW and Audi.
--
Darryl Okahata
darrylo@soco.agilent.com
DISCLAIMER: this message is the author's personal opinion and does not
constitute the support, opinion, or policy of Agilent Technologies, or
of the little green men that have been following him all day. |
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E Brown
Guest
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| Posted:
Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:53 pm Post subject:
Re: 2002 A4 vs. BMW 325 Xi - reliability |
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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 09:04:29 -0700, Darryl Okahata
<darrylo@soco.agilent.com> wrote:
| Quote: | Heh. Given the timeframe, I wonder if similar parts were used in both
BMW and Audi.
|
Likely - European car makers use lots of common parts from outside
vendors. Mercedes-Benz has window regulator issues in the C and E
class cars like those for BMW as well, also for the same time frame.
Emanuel |
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