| Author |
Message |
Aldert E. van der Laan
Guest
|
 Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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|
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I went back to the dealer on Wednesday after I spoke to my sales
person and the manager took this up with me. This is of course a nice
gesture but not really helping me out a lot. In the lot we opened
three hoods of brand new cars and the cylinder heads and other parts
were also covered in rust. This proofed that either the dealership is
not taking care of their new vehicles or that Ford has switched to
cheaper production methods. Times are tough and working in a
manufacturing plant myself I understand that saving a dime here and
there can add up to huge cost savings.
I would however expect a new car to be free of rust on the painted
parts of the engine. I understand an exhaust manifold would become
rusty easily as it heats up. Cylinder heads do too of course but
shouldn't they be better protected by a coated layer of special
paints? I know for sure if we were to deliver our products with rusty
engines that our dealers would not accept the machines at all.
Communicating with 2004 Taurus SE owners has given me enough feedback
to question the quality of the 2005 Taurus SE cars. Two persons have
indicated that they had no rust on their 2004 Taurus SE engines. Even
now after a year they still see little or no rust.
My letter to Ford will most likely be delivered next week but somehow
I feel that little will be done.
I do not want to start a flame war here and I am overall satisfied
with the car, it is just eating at me that I had not noticed this when
I took the car for a test drive.
|
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Eric Toline
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric |
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Lawrence Glickman
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:25:21 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
<aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
|
OK, I have a Taurus Vulcan 3.0 liter in a 2003 Merc Sable ( same car
). It had rust on it from Day One. On the exhaust manifolds, and on
the heads where the spark plugs go in. Obviously these are
non-aluminum alloy. High iron content, possibly cast iron.
My concern is rust-through on the manifolds, but I don't know what to
do to slow down the process, as those things get _hot_ and would
burn-off anything I could apply to them.
Lg
| Quote: | Thanks for the reply.
Al |
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| Back to top |
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pick one
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
Post pictures of the rust, that would be helpful.
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com...
| Quote: | To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I went back to the dealer on Wednesday after I spoke to my sales
person and the manager took this up with me. This is of course a nice
gesture but not really helping me out a lot. In the lot we opened
three hoods of brand new cars and the cylinder heads and other parts
were also covered in rust. This proofed that either the dealership is
not taking care of their new vehicles or that Ford has switched to
cheaper production methods. Times are tough and working in a
manufacturing plant myself I understand that saving a dime here and
there can add up to huge cost savings.
I would however expect a new car to be free of rust on the painted
parts of the engine. I understand an exhaust manifold would become
rusty easily as it heats up. Cylinder heads do too of course but
shouldn't they be better protected by a coated layer of special
paints? I know for sure if we were to deliver our products with rusty
engines that our dealers would not accept the machines at all.
Communicating with 2004 Taurus SE owners has given me enough feedback
to question the quality of the 2005 Taurus SE cars. Two persons have
indicated that they had no rust on their 2004 Taurus SE engines. Even
now after a year they still see little or no rust.
My letter to Ford will most likely be delivered next week but somehow
I feel that little will be done.
I do not want to start a flame war here and I am overall satisfied
with the car, it is just eating at me that I had not noticed this when
I took the car for a test drive.
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Aldert E. van der Laan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE - DCP_1699.JPG (0/1) |
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|
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:27:33 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
Will get more detailed pics tomorrow, here is one of the front view of
the car, zoom in if you want to see better.
This is when the car had been driven 120km from the dealer in dry
conditions.
| Quote: | Post pictures of the rust, that would be helpful.
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com...
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I went back to the dealer on Wednesday after I spoke to my sales
person and the manager took this up with me. This is of course a nice
gesture but not really helping me out a lot. In the lot we opened
three hoods of brand new cars and the cylinder heads and other parts
were also covered in rust. This proofed that either the dealership is
not taking care of their new vehicles or that Ford has switched to
cheaper production methods. Times are tough and working in a
manufacturing plant myself I understand that saving a dime here and
there can add up to huge cost savings.
I would however expect a new car to be free of rust on the painted
parts of the engine. I understand an exhaust manifold would become
rusty easily as it heats up. Cylinder heads do too of course but
shouldn't they be better protected by a coated layer of special
paints? I know for sure if we were to deliver our products with rusty
engines that our dealers would not accept the machines at all.
Communicating with 2004 Taurus SE owners has given me enough feedback
to question the quality of the 2005 Taurus SE cars. Two persons have
indicated that they had no rust on their 2004 Taurus SE engines. Even
now after a year they still see little or no rust.
My letter to Ford will most likely be delivered next week but somehow
I feel that little will be done.
I do not want to start a flame war here and I am overall satisfied
with the car, it is just eating at me that I had not noticed this when
I took the car for a test drive.
|
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| Back to top |
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Aldert E. van der Laan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:41 am Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
| Quote: | Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
|
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
Thanks for the reply.
Al |
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| Back to top |
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pick one
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oag2r0tc8rftfibjerujm5ah6c1lbi0u28@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:25:21 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
OK, I have a Taurus Vulcan 3.0 liter in a 2003 Merc Sable ( same car
). It had rust on it from Day One. On the exhaust manifolds, and on
the heads where the spark plugs go in. Obviously these are
non-aluminum alloy. High iron content, possibly cast iron.
My concern is rust-through on the manifolds, but I don't know what to
do to slow down the process, as those things get _hot_ and would
burn-off anything I could apply to them.
|
High temp paint will work. They don't get as hot as you think.
| Quote: | Lg
Thanks for the reply.
Al
|
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pick one
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE - DCP_1699.JPG (0/1) |
|
|
Nice picture, to bad I cant see it.
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:nfd2r019gimqeip88k2c3m838u7p1jj2bg@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:27:33 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
Will get more detailed pics tomorrow, here is one of the front view of
the car, zoom in if you want to see better.
This is when the car had been driven 120km from the dealer in dry
conditions.
Post pictures of the rust, that would be helpful.
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com...
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I went back to the dealer on Wednesday after I spoke to my sales
person and the manager took this up with me. This is of course a nice
gesture but not really helping me out a lot. In the lot we opened
three hoods of brand new cars and the cylinder heads and other parts
were also covered in rust. This proofed that either the dealership is
not taking care of their new vehicles or that Ford has switched to
cheaper production methods. Times are tough and working in a
manufacturing plant myself I understand that saving a dime here and
there can add up to huge cost savings.
I would however expect a new car to be free of rust on the painted
parts of the engine. I understand an exhaust manifold would become
rusty easily as it heats up. Cylinder heads do too of course but
shouldn't they be better protected by a coated layer of special
paints? I know for sure if we were to deliver our products with rusty
engines that our dealers would not accept the machines at all.
Communicating with 2004 Taurus SE owners has given me enough feedback
to question the quality of the 2005 Taurus SE cars. Two persons have
indicated that they had no rust on their 2004 Taurus SE engines. Even
now after a year they still see little or no rust.
My letter to Ford will most likely be delivered next week but somehow
I feel that little will be done.
I do not want to start a flame war here and I am overall satisfied
with the car, it is just eating at me that I had not noticed this when
I took the car for a test drive.
|
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| Back to top |
|
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DriveSpy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:21 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
Ford doesn't paint their iron blocks or heads these days do they? I would
think rust on the heads and block is normal even if the car is new. Someplace
else to check for rust is under the dash and on the seat tracks and frame. You
might even be surprised what ferrous parts under the car are starting to rust.
Keep us updated. |
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Aldert E. van der Laan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:38 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE - DCP_1699.JPG (0/1) |
|
|
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 06:50:43 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
Hmmm sent me an email and I will forward it again, just going in now
to make more pictures. Did the news server strip the attachment or
something? It was about 225K
| Quote: | Nice picture, to bad I cant see it.
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:nfd2r019gimqeip88k2c3m838u7p1jj2bg@4ax.com...
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 22:27:33 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
Will get more detailed pics tomorrow, here is one of the front view of
the car, zoom in if you want to see better.
This is when the car had been driven 120km from the dealer in dry
conditions.
Post pictures of the rust, that would be helpful.
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com...
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I went back to the dealer on Wednesday after I spoke to my sales
person and the manager took this up with me. This is of course a nice
gesture but not really helping me out a lot. In the lot we opened
three hoods of brand new cars and the cylinder heads and other parts
were also covered in rust. This proofed that either the dealership is
not taking care of their new vehicles or that Ford has switched to
cheaper production methods. Times are tough and working in a
manufacturing plant myself I understand that saving a dime here and
there can add up to huge cost savings.
I would however expect a new car to be free of rust on the painted
parts of the engine. I understand an exhaust manifold would become
rusty easily as it heats up. Cylinder heads do too of course but
shouldn't they be better protected by a coated layer of special
paints? I know for sure if we were to deliver our products with rusty
engines that our dealers would not accept the machines at all.
Communicating with 2004 Taurus SE owners has given me enough feedback
to question the quality of the 2005 Taurus SE cars. Two persons have
indicated that they had no rust on their 2004 Taurus SE engines. Even
now after a year they still see little or no rust.
My letter to Ford will most likely be delivered next week but somehow
I feel that little will be done.
I do not want to start a flame war here and I am overall satisfied
with the car, it is just eating at me that I had not noticed this when
I took the car for a test drive.
|
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|
| Back to top |
|
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Andrew Rossmann
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:43 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
[This followup was posted to alt.autos.ford and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]
In article <4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com>, aelaan12
@rogers.com says...
| Quote: | To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
|
I wouldn't worry too much. It will take a VERY LONG time for it to eat
enough to cause problems. It's 99% cosmetic. I've had old frame-based
cars with frames that look horrible, but are actually still very strong.
--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross |
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Aldert E. van der Laan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 06:49:06 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
| Quote: |
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oag2r0tc8rftfibjerujm5ah6c1lbi0u28@4ax.com...
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:25:21 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
OK, I have a Taurus Vulcan 3.0 liter in a 2003 Merc Sable ( same car
). It had rust on it from Day One. On the exhaust manifolds, and on
the heads where the spark plugs go in. Obviously these are
non-aluminum alloy. High iron content, possibly cast iron.
My concern is rust-through on the manifolds, but I don't know what to
do to slow down the process, as those things get _hot_ and would
burn-off anything I could apply to them.
High temp paint will work. They don't get as hot as you think.
|
I was adviced not to put on any high temp paint from a mechanic at the
Ford dealership. The dealership was actually offering to paint the
cylinder heads with a high temp paint but the people that need to do
the work told us that it is of no use, it might hold for a month or
for a week and the end result might be worse. |
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pick one
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 6:59 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:n5g3r0t6jbhopocmq1h09i19o6srqmgebd@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 06:49:06 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oag2r0tc8rftfibjerujm5ah6c1lbi0u28@4ax.com...
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:25:21 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
OK, I have a Taurus Vulcan 3.0 liter in a 2003 Merc Sable ( same car
). It had rust on it from Day One. On the exhaust manifolds, and on
the heads where the spark plugs go in. Obviously these are
non-aluminum alloy. High iron content, possibly cast iron.
My concern is rust-through on the manifolds, but I don't know what to
do to slow down the process, as those things get _hot_ and would
burn-off anything I could apply to them.
High temp paint will work. They don't get as hot as you think.
I was adviced not to put on any high temp paint from a mechanic at the
Ford dealership. The dealership was actually offering to paint the
cylinder heads with a high temp paint but the people that need to do
the work told us that it is of no use, it might hold for a month or
for a week and the end result might be worse.
If paint will last on a set of headers for several years it will work on your |
cast iron manifolds. It wont hurt anything, just as the surface rust on them now
will not hurt anything. The thing you need to realize.....it's an engine, not
the interior of the car, so some parts have surface rust, big deal, get over it.
The rust will not "eat" away the manifolds. |
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Aldert E. van der Laan
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 07:43:25 -0600, Andrew Rossmann
<andysnewsreply@no_junk.comcast.net> wrote:
| Quote: | [This followup was posted to alt.autos.ford and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]
In article <4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com>, aelaan12
@rogers.com says...
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I wouldn't worry too much. It will take a VERY LONG time for it to eat
enough to cause problems. It's 99% cosmetic. I've had old frame-based
cars with frames that look horrible, but are actually still very strong.
|
It does not matter in my opinion how long it will take to cause
problems. It may cause problems, no matter how you reason it and will
a customer accept this on a new car. It causes a problem with me that
although the parts were painted the rust is showing and in fact has
taken off the paint. I am looking at the quality of work as well, as
it states on the window sticker: Quality is job #1
I would assume this is for all the parts of the car. Others are also
telling me not to worry too much and maybe I am a picky customer.
Maybe I am too picky, that is why I like to read the opinion of other
people (and I do appreciate the comments). |
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Jeff
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com...
| Quote: | To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
|
I am sure a layer of rust (maybe 1/1000 inch thick) would form when the cars
are on the car carrier, sitting on the lot, etc. The only way you are going
to avoid this is to paint the engine (or use aluminum). This is nothing to
worry about. within a month or so, a layer crude (engine oil, road dirt,
etc.) will form on the engine and prevent further rust.
| Quote: | I went back to the dealer on Wednesday after I spoke to my sales
person and the manager took this up with me. This is of course a nice
gesture but not really helping me out a lot. In the lot we opened
three hoods of brand new cars and the cylinder heads and other parts
were also covered in rust. This proofed that either the dealership is
not taking care of their new vehicles or that Ford has switched to
cheaper production methods. Times are tough and working in a
manufacturing plant myself I understand that saving a dime here and
there can add up to huge cost savings.
|
| Quote: | I would however expect a new car to be free of rust on the painted
parts of the engine.
|
Their not painted.
| Quote: | I understand an exhaust manifold would become
rusty easily as it heats up. Cylinder heads do too of course but
shouldn't they be better protected by a coated layer of special
paints?
|
No. They will be coarted with oil and road dirt.
| Quote: | I know for sure if we were to deliver our products with rusty
engines that our dealers would not accept the machines at all.
|
Who are "we"?
| Quote: | Communicating with 2004 Taurus SE owners has given me enough feedback
to question the quality of the 2005 Taurus SE cars. Two persons have
indicated that they had no rust on their 2004 Taurus SE engines. Even
now after a year they still see little or no rust.
|
They just see the layer of dirt and oil.
| Quote: | My letter to Ford will most likely be delivered next week but somehow
I feel that little will be done.
I do not want to start a flame war here and I am overall satisfied
with the car, it is just eating at me that I had not noticed this when
I took the car for a test drive.
|
Don't worry. It won't hurt anything.
Jeff |
|
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