| Author |
Message |
Jeff
Guest
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 Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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"Eric Toline" <Audioetc@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3825-41B11AD3-139@storefull-3256.bay.webtv.net...
| Quote: | Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
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The Duratec is aluminum. The other 3.0 is iron.
Jeff
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Jeff
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:09 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oag2r0tc8rftfibjerujm5ah6c1lbi0u28@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:25:21 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
OK, I have a Taurus Vulcan 3.0 liter in a 2003 Merc Sable ( same car
). It had rust on it from Day One. On the exhaust manifolds, and on
the heads where the spark plugs go in. Obviously these are
non-aluminum alloy. High iron content, possibly cast iron.
My concern is rust-through on the manifolds, but I don't know what to
do to slow down the process, as those things get _hot_ and would
burn-off anything I could apply to them.
|
It will take about 200 years of daily operation of the car for the manifolds
to rust through.
Jeff
| Quote: | Lg
Thanks for the reply.
Al
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Aldert E. van der Laan
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:22 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:59:25 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
It seems that this issue was brought up years ago:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_rust.html
Now that I did a specific search on it.
Just consulted a mechanic that told me that in fact it is okay for
cast iron to rust. It will give it a protective layer.
He also explained that it may not look really nice but that it is okay
and so I am at ease with it now.
Thanks for all your replies.
Al
| Quote: |
If paint will last on a set of headers for several years it will work on your
cast iron manifolds. It wont hurt anything, just as the surface rust on them now
will not hurt anything. The thing you need to realize.....it's an engine, not
the interior of the car, so some parts have surface rust, big deal, get over it.
The rust will not "eat" away the manifolds.
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johanb
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:32 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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Je kan ook naar Californie verhuizen, hier roesten ze niet..........
Johan
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:ero3r0h3bv8ekhpct6rjvmec11jlndpl4q@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:59:25 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
It seems that this issue was brought up years ago:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_rust.html
Now that I did a specific search on it.
Just consulted a mechanic that told me that in fact it is okay for
cast iron to rust. It will give it a protective layer.
He also explained that it may not look really nice but that it is okay
and so I am at ease with it now.
Thanks for all your replies.
Al
If paint will last on a set of headers for several years it will work on
your
cast iron manifolds. It wont hurt anything, just as the surface rust on
them now
will not hurt anything. The thing you need to realize.....it's an engine,
not
the interior of the car, so some parts have surface rust, big deal, get
over it.
The rust will not "eat" away the manifolds.
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Reece Talley
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 9:46 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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Surface rust is inevitable on all exposed iron. Unless the rust is
constantly fed by exposure to water and chemicals you have nothing to worry
about. The rust will form an oxidized barrier several thousands of an inch
thick and will stop further attacks. (the rust browning treatment was used
on gun barrels for centuries as a protection from rust) Your engine heads
and block are very thick. For rust to wear into them to any appreciable
depth would take several decades. Now if the motor were in marine service
and exposed to salt water (moisture and chemicals remember?) then you would
have reason to worry. If your state uses salt or some other chloride to
de-ice the roads each winter, it would be prudent to rinse the engine and
the under side of the car including the wheel wells every time you get the
chance. If rust does developed, it will be the freeze plugs that go first as
they are made of stamped sheet metal.
As you note, alloy engines don't rust. So, if you were purchasing alloy
motored cars in the past you might be shocked by what you see under the hood
of an iron motored car. If you see paint blistering on sheet metal, get
worked up. If you see rust eating into the fire wall or wheel wells, get
worked up. If you see rust in the door sills or around the cowl get worked
up. But a rust covered iron block is nothing to worry about. Shoot, I
recently restored a 41 Dodge Power Wagon that spent the last 45 years in a
Missouri field buried up to the top of the frame rails. The sheet metal was
shot and the frame and block heavily coated with rust but when we
sandblasted them they came out unscathed. I've seen this same scenario on
several of the 6 cars and trucks I've restored. They were all pitted to be
sure but nothing serious. IMHO, I wouldn't loose any sleep over surface rust
on an engine block.
--
R. J. Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
NAR #69594
NRA #133073736
"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:2vg3r019a4860k0nl4tupo8ngiu22na67a@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 07:43:25 -0600, Andrew Rossmann
andysnewsreply@no_junk.comcast.net> wrote:
[This followup was posted to alt.autos.ford and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]
In article <4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com>, aelaan12
@rogers.com says...
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I wouldn't worry too much. It will take a VERY LONG time for it to eat
enough to cause problems. It's 99% cosmetic. I've had old frame-based
cars with frames that look horrible, but are actually still very strong.
It does not matter in my opinion how long it will take to cause
problems. It may cause problems, no matter how you reason it and will
a customer accept this on a new car. It causes a problem with me that
although the parts were painted the rust is showing and in fact has
taken off the paint. I am looking at the quality of work as well, as
it states on the window sticker: Quality is job #1
I would assume this is for all the parts of the car. Others are also
telling me not to worry too much and maybe I am a picky customer.
Maybe I am too picky, that is why I like to read the opinion of other
people (and I do appreciate the comments).
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Lawrence Glickman
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:16 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 11:09:13 -0500, "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:
| Quote: |
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oag2r0tc8rftfibjerujm5ah6c1lbi0u28@4ax.com...
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:25:21 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
OK, I have a Taurus Vulcan 3.0 liter in a 2003 Merc Sable ( same car
). It had rust on it from Day One. On the exhaust manifolds, and on
the heads where the spark plugs go in. Obviously these are
non-aluminum alloy. High iron content, possibly cast iron.
My concern is rust-through on the manifolds, but I don't know what to
do to slow down the process, as those things get _hot_ and would
burn-off anything I could apply to them.
It will take about 200 years of daily operation of the car for the manifolds
to rust through.
Jeff
|
Let us hope so.
I had a Fiat that rusted through an exhaust manifold. That was 45
years ago, and the car was used when I bought it. Maybe -this- cast
iron is thick enough (seems to be plenty thick) that it will not burn
through.
I also see that the air conditioning compressor mounting bracket is
cast iron, and well-rusted. That I don't care about as much, as it
seems beefy enough for the load with the design of it. Lots of
I-brace designs in it.
Anyhow, I agree it is not a big deal.
Because at least an exhaust manifold is a small and easy to get to
thing ( at least the one in the front of the vehicle is, can't say
about the back Bank 1 manifold ), and once you have the new part,
can't take but an hour or so to replace each one.
I'm certain the heads are of no concern whatsoever, due to their
massive design.
Lg |
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Backyard Mechanic
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:41 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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Aldert E. van der Laan opined in
news:4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com:
| Quote: | To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
|
An amazing amount of repartee for a non-issue.
Surface rust does no harm.. especially on cast iron, it is when that turns to
a rust scale that there's a problem.
Cast Iron resists scale formation as you can see on almost any old manifold.
The REAL culprit is in certain steel alloys...I havent seen or heard of a
domestic exhaust pipe -manifold to cat- rusting out for years..
To the contrary was my kid's 5 year old renault (Eagle) which manifold to cat
essentially crumbled under the assault of midwest road salt. |
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pick one
Guest
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| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
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"Aldert E. van der Laan" <aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:2vg3r019a4860k0nl4tupo8ngiu22na67a@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 07:43:25 -0600, Andrew Rossmann
andysnewsreply@no_junk.comcast.net> wrote:
[This followup was posted to alt.autos.ford and a copy was sent to the
cited author.]
In article <4r22r0pqh5ar3flsc8689svvtiucukb6g0@4ax.com>, aelaan12
@rogers.com says...
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
I wouldn't worry too much. It will take a VERY LONG time for it to eat
enough to cause problems. It's 99% cosmetic. I've had old frame-based
cars with frames that look horrible, but are actually still very strong.
It does not matter in my opinion how long it will take to cause
problems. It may cause problems, no matter how you reason it and will
a customer accept this on a new car. It causes a problem with me that
although the parts were painted the rust is showing and in fact has
taken off the paint. I am looking at the quality of work as well, as
it states on the window sticker: Quality is job #1
I would assume this is for all the parts of the car. Others are also
telling me not to worry too much and maybe I am a picky customer.
Maybe I am too picky, that is why I like to read the opinion of other
people (and I do appreciate the comments).
The heads and manifolds have never been painted, so there was no paint to burn |
off. It is not poor quality to not paint them. Your not being picky, your
confusing what defines quality. |
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lugnut
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 11:51 pm Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 11:22:01 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
<aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
| Quote: | On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 08:59:25 -0500, "pick one" <try again!> wrote:
It seems that this issue was brought up years ago:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/ford_rust.html
Now that I did a specific search on it.
Just consulted a mechanic that told me that in fact it is okay for
cast iron to rust. It will give it a protective layer.
He also explained that it may not look really nice but that it is okay
and so I am at ease with it now.
Thanks for all your replies.
Al
|
The rust does in fact provide a protective coating to cast
iron which can be a protective as a coat of paint over the
long haul. The problem that is sometimes found in painting
cast iron items is that the paint will sometimes de-laminate
from the surface on things that are continuously cycled
between hot and cold providing a place for moisture to
collect which promotes corrosion. The rust coating tends to
"breath" for the lack of a better term at the moment
allowing the moisture to be driven from the coating as soon
as the engine starts to warm and reduces the rate of
corrosion overall. This is not true of sheet steel product
which do need to be protected by a coat of paint or plating.
Non-ferrous materials also have no particular need for a
paint coating. The white oxide coating it aquires with
exposeure will provide good protection. Don't look too
purrty but, works. If you want to get more technical, I am
sure there is a metallurgist somewhere in the group to
further explain.
| Quote: |
If paint will last on a set of headers for several years it will work on your
cast iron manifolds. It wont hurt anything, just as the surface rust on them now
will not hurt anything. The thing you need to realize.....it's an engine, not
the interior of the car, so some parts have surface rust, big deal, get over it.
The rust will not "eat" away the manifolds.
|
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| Back to top |
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Jeff
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:08 am Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
|
|
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:rav3r0lt0b644kg9lctu5bqrm70ol4ifd3@4ax.com...
| Quote: | On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 11:09:13 -0500, "Jeff" <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com
wrote:
"Lawrence Glickman" <Lawrence_Glickman@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:oag2r0tc8rftfibjerujm5ah6c1lbi0u28@4ax.com...
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:25:21 -0500, Aldert E. van der Laan
aelaan12@rogers.com> wrote:
On Fri, 3 Dec 2004 21:02:59 -0500, Audioetc@webtv.net (Eric Toline)
wrote:
Strange indeed. The engine of my '99 SE Duratec is as rust free as the
day it came from the dealer and I live in a really humid climate.
Eric
Remember the Duratec has mostly aluminum parts that do not rust.
My 99 Merc Sable also had the DOHC engine and had no rust whatsoever.
I am particularly looking for the Vulcan engines.
OK, I have a Taurus Vulcan 3.0 liter in a 2003 Merc Sable ( same car
). It had rust on it from Day One. On the exhaust manifolds, and on
the heads where the spark plugs go in. Obviously these are
non-aluminum alloy. High iron content, possibly cast iron.
My concern is rust-through on the manifolds, but I don't know what to
do to slow down the process, as those things get _hot_ and would
burn-off anything I could apply to them.
It will take about 200 years of daily operation of the car for the
manifolds
to rust through.
Jeff
Let us hope so.
I had a Fiat that rusted through an exhaust manifold. That was 45
years ago, and the car was used when I bought it. Maybe -this- cast
iron is thick enough (seems to be plenty thick) that it will not burn
through.
I also see that the air conditioning compressor mounting bracket is
cast iron, and well-rusted. That I don't care about as much, as it
seems beefy enough for the load with the design of it. Lots of
I-brace designs in it.
Anyhow, I agree it is not a big deal.
Because at least an exhaust manifold is a small and easy to get to
thing ( at least the one in the front of the vehicle is, can't say
about the back Bank 1 manifold ), and once you have the new part,
can't take but an hour or so to replace each one.
I'm certain the heads are of no concern whatsoever, due to their
massive design.
Lg
|
I used to take appart engines for my dad's company that rebuilt engines. I
have never seen a manifold show anything that indicates real damage from
rust. We used glasss beader (which is like a sand blaster in a cabinet) to
clean the manifolds. The part numbers that were cast on the manifolds were
always visible after beading them. So I really doubt that they get any
damage from rust.
The other thing is that they are dry (at least on the outside) because they
get hot. Any water evaporates pretty fast. And they are covered by the hood,
so unless the weather is really nasty, they won't get wet. And any water
that splashes up on them doesn't stay on the manifold long enough to cause
rust.
Jeff |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:27 am Post subject:
Re: Quality of the 2005 Taurus SE |
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Look under the hood of any brand vehicle with CAST IRON
parts and you will find surface rust. Look under the hood of
any old car with CAST IRON parts and you will see those parts are
still there, still rusted. Not too worry
those parts will be around longer than you ;)
mike hunt
"Aldert E. van der Laan" wrote:
| Quote: |
To what extend can rust be expected on a brand new car?
I am asking this question as I took ownership of a 2005 Taurus SE.
After lifting the hood on Monday to show of my new toy I found an
amount of rust on the cylinder heads and other cast iron parts inside
the engine compartment.
|
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