| Author |
Message |
Hugo Drax
Guest
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 Posted:
Fri Dec 03, 2004 5:21 am Post subject:
Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
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Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US
Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up
new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
series.
What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
anymore.
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:15 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
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GM is the number the #1 selling brand in the US and the world.
Ford is #2 in the US and the world, what's the problem? The vast
majority of their vehicles sold in the US carry a '1' as the
first digit of the VIN, meaning they are made in the US of over
70% American parts. The Camry carries a 'J' made in Japan or a
'5,' meaning they are only assembled in the US and of less than
40% American parts. The only Toyota with a '1' is the Tacoma made
in the GM/Toyota plant in California. Toyota is building a plant
in Mexico to make Tacoma trucks for the US market and a plant in
China to make Camrys for the US. Chrysler is no longer made by an
American corporation.
MB is a German corporation and Chrysler is only a holding company
but least they pay federal corporate taxes to the US. Japanese
corporation do not pay a penny in US federal corporate taxes.
Buy American, as the say, YOUR job depends on it.
mike hunt
Hugo Drax wrote:
| Quote: |
Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US
Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up
new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
series.
What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
anymore. |
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| Back to top |
|
|
James C. Reeves
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 3:42 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
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"Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:319psnF38qm30U1@individual.net...
| Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US
| Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up
| new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
| series.
|
| What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
| anymore.
|
|
I don't know what Ford's problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can tell
you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers...even on simple
matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some sort
of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from. A company can't
treat customers that way for very long before they move elsewhere. I've not
experienced anywhere near that same level of disregard for the customer for
other brand cars I've owned. I wrote two letters to Tom Lutz at GM a couple
years ago on a matter relating to this subject. And as I eventually discovered
to be typical GM culture (apparently), the letters were ignored completely.
Not even a "thanks for writing" letter back for either one. Customers won't
put up with that sort of foolishness when they drop $20K-$40K (or more) on a
product.
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Ted Mittelstaedt
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
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|
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:z9SdnV24xMpvdi3cRVn-2g@comcast.com...
| Quote: |
"Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:319psnF38qm30U1@individual.net...
| Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As
US
| Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening
up
| new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
| series.
|
| What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not
help
| anymore.
|
|
I don't know what Ford's problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can
tell
you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers...even on
simple
matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some
sort
of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from.
|
Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of
by the GM dealers.
I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer has,
what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships.
Ted |
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| Back to top |
|
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Al Bundy
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 04, 2004 5:40 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<z9SdnV24xMpvdi3cRVn-2g@comcast.com>...
| Quote: | "Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:319psnF38qm30U1@individual.net...
| Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US
| Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up
| new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
| series.
|
| What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
| anymore.
|
|
I don't know what Ford's problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can tell
you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers...even on simple
matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some sort
of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from. A company can't
treat customers that way for very long before they move elsewhere. I've not
experienced anywhere near that same level of disregard for the customer for
other brand cars I've owned. I wrote two letters to Tom Lutz at GM a couple
years ago on a matter relating to this subject. And as I eventually discovered
to be typical GM culture (apparently), the letters were ignored completely.
Not even a "thanks for writing" letter back for either one. Customers won't
put up with that sort of foolishness when they drop $20K-$40K (or more) on a
product.
|
James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don't want you
to write them? You're just a pain in the ass to them.
I know it's like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way I
can't wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over
full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It's not that far
fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches for
$1 that work OK. |
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Bobby The D
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:03 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
"Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message news:
| Quote: | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US
Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up
new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
series.
What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
anymore.
|
Troll. |
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| Back to top |
|
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James C. Reeves
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 05, 2004 4:46 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
"Ted Mittelstaedt" <tedm@toybox.placo.com> wrote in message
news:newscache$bij68i$iti$1@news.ipinc.net...
|
| "James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
| news:z9SdnV24xMpvdi3cRVn-2g@comcast.com...
| >
| > "Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message
| > news:319psnF38qm30U1@individual.net...
| > | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As
| US
| > | Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening
| up
| > | new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
| > | series.
| > |
| > | What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not
| help
| > | anymore.
| > |
| > |
| >
| > I don't know what Ford's problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can
| tell
| > you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers...even on
| simple
| > matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some
| sort
| > of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from.
|
| Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of
| by the GM dealers.
|
| I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer has,
| what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships.
|
| Ted
|
|
Last resort. Dealer => BBB => Bob Lutz (In my case) But you're normally
right. The last issue I had at another manufacturer, the Dealer became my
advocate against the manufacturer and works very successfully. |
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| Back to top |
|
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James C. Reeves
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sun Dec 05, 2004 5:04 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
"Bobby The D" <bobbythed@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:390d0720.0412041203.1efdd51a@posting.google.com...
| "Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message news:
|
| > Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US
| > Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up
| > new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
| > series.
| >
| > What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
| > anymore.
|
|
| Troll.
Actually he is right...look at the sales numbers and ever decreasing market
share. |
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| Back to top |
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 1:34 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
Few owners read the part of their warranty that says 'GM warrant
to its dealers etc." ;)
mike hunt
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
| Quote: |
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:z9SdnV24xMpvdi3cRVn-2g@comcast.com...
"Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:319psnF38qm30U1@individual.net...
| Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As
US
| Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening
up
| new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
| series.
|
| What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not
help
| anymore.
|
|
I don't know what Ford's problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can
tell
you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers...even on
simple
matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some
sort
of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from.
Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of
by the GM dealers.
I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer has,
what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships.
Ted |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Refinish_King1
Guest
|
| Posted:
Mon Dec 06, 2004 9:49 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
Except in the case of a North Central, Pa. dealer I worked for:
He would screw the customers, and the manufacturers. Yes "Manufacturers" he
has 7 lines, would have to get involved.
He is a pompous bag of hot air whom has no respect for his employees nor his
customers.
Refinish King
<BenDover@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41B370DF.281DF14D@mailcity.com...
| Quote: | Few owners read the part of their warranty that says 'GM warrant
to its dealers etc." ;)
mike hunt
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote:
"James C. Reeves" <jcnospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:z9SdnV24xMpvdi3cRVn-2g@comcast.com...
"Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov> wrote in message
news:319psnF38qm30U1@individual.net...
| Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not.
As
US
| Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep
opening
up
| new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its
300
| series.
|
| What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not
help
| anymore.
|
|
I don't know what Ford's problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can
tell
you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers...even on
simple
matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as
some
sort
of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from.
Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of
by the GM dealers.
I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer
has,
what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships.
Ted |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
David
Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:53 am Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
On Thu, 2 Dec 2004 19:21:42 -0500, "Hugo Drax" <hugodrax@nsa.gov>
wrote:
| Quote: | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US
Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up
new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300
series.
What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
anymore.
|
One big difference is that the old GM/Ford plants had strong unions to
contend with. Wages/benefits were high.
Newer plants making Toyota's, etc., do not have that problem. Wages
are OK, but not nearly as high as the old US automaker's wages.
It isn't a matter of knowing or not. It's a matter of executing what
you do know.
Take Ford, for instance. They were found to be cheating on their
emissions testing, so they had to either do a massive recall and fix
for their 7.3L diesels, or stop making the 7.3L.
So it hurried up the development of their new 6.0L diesel, and wound
up releasing it almost a full year before they had it working right.
Thousands of complaints, many total returns under lemon laws. Lots of
unhappy Ford customers, and $$$ down the drain.
Mitsubishi had something similar recently. Needed to do a large recall
for a problem in their cars, and tried to hide it under the rug. Big
scandal. Again, lots of customers lost faith in Mitsu after that, and
now they're hurting badly for cash, swimming in red ink.
The car business is very demanding. You have to not only get it right,
with thousands of little decisions for every model you bring to
market, but you have to do that year after year.
If your name or product isn't trusted, incentives won't help much. Too
big a purchase.
Dave
Go Metric! |
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| Back to top |
|
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Guest
|
| Posted:
Thu Dec 16, 2004 9:20 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
GM outsell Toyota, by more three to one. Ford outsell Toyota, by
more than two to one.
Toyota does indeed have the cost advantage of lower wages, fewer
benefits and pension for their employees. They assemble their
vehicles of lower cost imported parts, for the most part, in
newer plants built with state and local taxpayers money but their
vehicles still sell for 20& to 30% more than their domestic
competitors similarly size and equipped vehicles. Seems to to me
the buyer of their vehicles are not too smart.
mike hunt
David wrote:
| Quote: |
What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help
anymore.
One big difference is that the old GM/Ford plants had strong unions to
contend with. Wages/benefits were high.
Newer plants making Toyota's, etc., do not have that problem. Wages
are OK, but not nearly as high as the old US automaker's wages.
It isn't a matter of knowing or not. It's a matter of executing what
you do know.
Take Ford, for instance. They were found to be cheating on their
emissions testing, so they had to either do a massive recall and fix
for their 7.3L diesels, or stop making the 7.3L.
So it hurried up the development of their new 6.0L diesel, and wound
up releasing it almost a full year before they had it working right.
Thousands of complaints, many total returns under lemon laws. Lots of
unhappy Ford customers, and $$$ down the drain.
Mitsubishi had something similar recently. Needed to do a large recall
for a problem in their cars, and tried to hide it under the rug. Big
scandal. Again, lots of customers lost faith in Mitsu after that, and
now they're hurting badly for cash, swimming in red ink.
The car business is very demanding. You have to not only get it right,
with thousands of little decisions for every model you bring to
market, but you have to do that year after year.
If your name or product isn't trusted, incentives won't help much. Too
big a purchase.
Dave
Go Metric! |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hugo Drax
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
<MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41B0E575.B570343A@mailcity.com...
| Quote: | GM is the number the #1 selling brand in the US and the world.
Ford is #2 in the US and the world, what's the problem? The vast
majority of their vehicles sold in the US carry a '1' as the
first digit of the VIN, meaning they are made in the US of over
70% American parts. The Camry carries a 'J' made in Japan or a
'5,' meaning they are only assembled in the US and of less than
40% American parts. The only Toyota with a '1' is the Tacoma made
in the GM/Toyota plant in California. Toyota is building a plant
in Mexico to make Tacoma trucks for the US market and a plant in
China to make Camrys for the US. Chrysler is no longer made by an
American corporation.
MB is a German corporation and Chrysler is only a holding company
but least they pay federal corporate taxes to the US. Japanese
corporation do not pay a penny in US federal corporate taxes.
Buy American, as the say, YOUR job depends on it.
mike hunt
|
American companies barely pay takes anyways. Besides what american jobs are
we saving, they ship them as fast as they can to India etc.. and this was
happening during record profit years.
All the Camarys etc.. I saw were made right here. even my wifes Accord is
made in Ohio. |
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Hugo Drax
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:11 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
| Quote: | James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don't want you
to write them? You're just a pain in the ass to them.
I know it's like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way I
can't wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over
full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It's not that far
fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches for
$1 that work OK.
|
People will buy them. It is a cycle that is going to wipe out the US.
American companies keep shipping work overseas to appease the shareholder
quest for topping the last Quaterly results resulting in short term penny
profiting and consumers with lower spending dollars will turn to lower
priced products from communist china etc.. to make up for the drop in
discretionary income. You have not seen anything yet, wait till your kids
grandchildren in the future grow up. |
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| Back to top |
|
|
Hugo Drax
Guest
|
| Posted:
Sat Dec 18, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject:
Re: Japanese invasion, GM and FORD in trouble |
|
|
<MelvinGibson@mailcity.com> wrote in message
news:41C1B5D3.D4254D17@mailcity.com...
| Quote: | GM outsell Toyota, by more three to one. Ford outsell Toyota, by
more than two to one.
Toyota does indeed have the cost advantage of lower wages, fewer
benefits and pension for their employees. They assemble their
vehicles of lower cost imported parts, for the most part, in
newer plants built with state and local taxpayers money but their
vehicles still sell for 20& to 30% more than their domestic
competitors similarly size and equipped vehicles. Seems to to me
the buyer of their vehicles are not too smart.
|
Because people are tired of buying vehicles that have nonfunctional AC after
a few years of ownership or exploding fueltanks, self disconnecting tires
etc.. |
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